Cannot all IE7 users upgrade to IE8?
I think the only exceptions are Server 2003 SP1 and IA-64 versions of Windows, none of which are common.
Well that's fine as no one should be browsing the web on one of those.
IE7 users, we need to talk…
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Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…
#102I work for a fairly large org. Once I finished an internal app and sent out an email for some folks to check it out. I soon received an email that the website was not working for someone. The screenshot showed that the browser they were using was Lotus Notes. They were clicking on the link in their email and it was opening it in Lotus freaking Notes. "Uh, no, we don't support that."
Yeah, we've got a client who still uses IE for Mac, and refuses to consider using Safari, or anything else, as his feeling is that the internet should conform to him and his browser, not the other way around.
Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…
#103Well done. But many IE7 and IE8 users aren't by choice. They are employees at large companies with no ability to upgrade their corporate computers.
You can take it from the other end. These employees are locked on IE7/8 because there's not enough external forces to make it a business issue. When they won't be able to use critical resources because of their browser or OS, the upgrade will just happen, how painful and costly it will be (as long as it's less costly than not accessing the said resources)
If this were python, people would be arguing that IE8 does nothing new and maybe we should fork IE7 and continue using that forever
Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
The other option is they are elderly or just don't care. They have that E-Machines Pentium 3 future proof 256MB of RAM Windows98 computer and they'll use it until they die, because shouldn't everything that costs over $1,000 dollars last for 20-30 years?
In the case of elderly users I don't think that many of them could even identify the browser that they use without prompting from others.
Sure they can. The usually use Google as a browser.
Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…
#105> IE7 users make up 1.22% of our traffic right now, and this will decline as more computers are upgraded and can use modern browsers. No computer exists that is able to run IE7 but not IE8. And because IE7 came out way past the "optimized for IE" age, I doubt there is software around that requires 7 and doesn't work with 8. This is in contrast to 6 which is what IE was stuck in for years, so software began depending…
My guess is either.
Super conservative IT department. Lots of users only need a handful of websites to do their job, as long as those work why bother changing anything?
Some 3rd party application which might work on IE8 but only "supports" IE7
People who turned off automatic updates years ago because they slowed their computer down.
Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…
#106> IE7 users make up 1.22% of our traffic right now, and this will decline as more computers are upgraded and can use modern browsers. No computer exists that is able to run IE7 but not IE8. And because IE7 came out way past the "optimized for IE" age, I doubt there is software around that requires 7 and doesn't work with 8. This is in contrast to 6 which is what IE was stuck in for years, so software began depending…
Actually no, you are completely wrong. It might be a popular opinion but it's wrong.
Some facts:
1. Firstly, there are a couple of COM APIs that were broken with IE8 which mean that some horrible "intranet applications" that use ActiveX won't work with IE8 properly. They worked fine with IE6 and IE7. These are now no longer supported by the vendors with no upgrade path so people are stuck with IE7 whilst applications are rewritten or disposed of. This can take years. In fact I know a company that has taken 4 years to rewrite an ERP system away from this model. The compatibility flag deals with some rendering issues but it doesn't change the script engine or the ActiveX hosting situation.
2. No they can't install another browser side by side and just keep that for legacy. Chrome has a poor privacy and configuration support. The GPO side of it really is crappy. Firefox ESR is impossible to configure using GPO. Not only that users don't want to browser-juggle. Most of them don't actually give a shit about any of this as long as it works.
3. Also, IE7 was released in 2006. I personally maintain software that was written in 1988. People are very quick to hang software, particularly the non-engineering background trendy startup pushing culture. IE7 isn't going away until April 11, 2017.
To be fair, I'm recommending people away from the web and the cloud for business critical applications these days. The churn, culture and attitude (as your post outlines so readily) is very negative and a realistic 10 year cycle isn't possible any more. People need stuff to work undisturbed for years for their investment to be recouped.
Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…
#107> IE7 users make up 1.22% of our traffic right now, and this will decline as more computers are upgraded and can use modern browsers. No computer exists that is able to run IE7 but not IE8. And because IE7 came out way past the "optimized for IE" age, I doubt there is software around that requires 7 and doesn't work with 8. This is in contrast to 6 which is what IE was stuck in for years, so software began depending…
Actually no, you are completely wrong. It might be a popular opinion but it's wrong. Some facts: 1. Firstly, there are a couple of COM APIs that were broken with IE8 which mean that some horrible "intranet applications" that use ActiveX won't work with IE8 properly. They worked fine with IE6 and IE7. These are now no longer supported by the vendors with no upgrade path so people are stuck with IE7 whilst applications…
I can respect your advice in this context with regards to the cloud, but I'm not so sure about web technology in general, if by web you mean HTML5/JS/CSS3.
If you download Firefox 26 today along with your favourite OS and store it on a USB stick, you can restore it in 10 years an run the exact same web applications. That's not really technologically different from storing .NET Framework 4.0 or Java8 on USB stick, to ensure that you can run your that-other-compiled-LOB-program in 10 years. You may need an isolated virtual machine running, but you may need that for the other software as well. Anyone tried running a 16-bit VB6 app lately?
Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually no, you are completely wrong. It might be a popular opinion but it's wrong. Some facts: 1. Firstly, there are a couple of COM APIs that were broken with IE8 which mean that some horrible "intranet applications" that use ActiveX won't work with IE8 properly. They worked fine with IE6 and IE7. These are now no longer supported by the vendors with no upgrade path so people are stuck with IE7 whilst applications…
I can respect your advice in this context with regards to the cloud, but I'm not so sure about web technology in general, if by web you mean HTML5/JS/CSS3. If you download Firefox 26 today along with your favourite OS and store it on a USB stick, you can restore it in 10 years an run the exact same web applications. That's not really technologically different from storing .NET Framework 4.0 or Java8 on USB stick, to…
Yes by web I mean HTML5, JS and CSS3, REST and HTTP/SPDY.
Yes I can snapshot everything if I want but the problem with the web is that it is a general purpose tool. It should be a single portal into everything both local and remote sites and applications.
Unfortunately, the rate of change is incredibly large for Internet-facing applications. Intranet-facing applications are left behind. As browsers evolve, which they do rapidly, unpredictably and without compromise[1] a disparity grows until you need two browsers. This is not a situation an enterprise wants to or can afford to maintain, simply because it's below the watermark of concern for 99% of users. This is my point.
The difference between the CLR/JVM and a web browser is that they have a predictable shelf-life and can be maintained separately as they are separate portals into each world. To be fair (I exclude the CLR from this as it's too integrated into the OS), I can ship a JVM with a Java app and it'll run quite happily for another 15-20 years.
And yes I have tried running a 16-bit VB4 (!!) app lately - one of our clients uses one. On 32-bit Windows 8.1, it still works absolutely perfectly (Windows Vista 64-bit+ has no 16-bit subsystem).
[1] Apart from IE.
Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…
#109"Wayne Gretzky once said “skate where the puck is going, not where it’s been”"
No, no he did not. Steve Jobs said that Wayne Gretzky said "skate where the puck is going, not where it's been". However, I'm sure one day Wayne Gretzky will quote Steve Jobs saying that he once said that you must skate to where the puck is going, not where it's been. That day will be quite awesome.
On that note, what happens when the puck goes past its original position, as inevitably happens in a game of hockey? What does Wayne Gretzky do then? Ignore it?
Re: IE7 users, we need to talk…
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's like a carpenter saying he's afraid to pick up a hammer. How can you be an employee and at the same time be afraid of doing your job?
It might be hard to believe, but there are plenty of people in the world whos job has nothing to do with being tech-savvy. In this specific case the persons job is to manage HR process, not to keep their IT infrastructure up to date. The computer and browser are just tools.
I'm not saying they have to be tech-savvy, where did I say that? And keeping the IT-infrastructure up to date? What has that got to do with anything? Did you reply to the wrong comment?
If part of your work depends on using a computer (to manage HR or whatever), you can't be afraid of doing basic tasks like maximizing a window, turning it on, etc.
Just like a carpenter can't be afraid of picking up a hammer.
I hope it's more clear to you now.