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Court: Google infringed patents, must pay 1.36 percent of AdWords revenue

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Re: Court: Google infringed patents, must pay 1.36 percent of AdWords revenue

#81
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is it, not sure how you could read this another way. When reading the article it hit me that this was a great bit of business from Microsoft. A million dollars isn't much for MS to pay to make this go away... and then only paying 5% of Google will be forced to pay if they lose in court.. Microsoft's legal advisor must be happy with himself today

Well I don't see how it is a Win for MS when their ad revenue is ~3% that of Google. In a sense, aren't they paying more ?

Considering MS holds 30% of all search volume, this is a win for them.

Re: Court: Google infringed patents, must pay 1.36 percent of AdWords revenue

#82
post #18

What does this mean for ad-supported startups? Does anyone have specifics on the patent issue here? I didn't get it from the news coverage.

I haven't read the patents yet. According to the original article and it's comments, looks like there are two aspects are infringed: auction model and user re-targeting model.

It looks like the auction model based on the number of hits is pretty obvious now, but it was not quite obvious in 1999. The re-targeting model is definitely novel in 1999.

Re: Court: Google infringed patents, must pay 1.36 percent of AdWords revenue

#83

Just hundreds of millions? Is that only going forward or is it retroactive? If it's the latter, I'd expect that number to be much, much higher.

It's only retroactive back to 2012 and the patent expires in 2016.

I was wondering Google started to use Adwords from 2012? But I heard about re-targeting in 2012 though. It is said Google knew it from 2005, but didn't buy it or failed to buy it. Not sure. Interesting story.

Re: Court: Google infringed patents, must pay 1.36 percent of AdWords revenue

#84

> Even though there was no evidence of copying—Vringo admitted as much What a ridiculous system we all operate under. You come up with a mathematical formula for ranking some text on a page (in this case, what ads to show first), and you could now owe $250M/year to some company you've never heard of because they already bought the rights to that formula. It turns my stomach; sorry that I have nothing of more substanc…

The lack of an independent invention defense (or some variation of this) is pretty much 80% of what's wrong with patent law in my opinion. A sampling of the issues an independent invention addresses:

* Obviousness. Patents are required to be non-obvious to a "person holding ordinary skill in the art", but obviousness is highly subjective and difficult to assess (especially for a non-technical jury). In contrast, evaluating whether something was independently invented, while not necessarily simple, is a more objective test.

* Utility. One of the rationales behind the patent system is that we want to encourage inventors to share their ideas with the world instead of just keeping them secret for as long as possible. While the patent system requires publication of the invention, it doesn't require publication in a manner that's particularly useful. If you could only assert patents against people actually using them, then you would have a strong incentive to make them useful (e.g. source code).

* Supply and Demand. The current system grants a flat 20 years to each patented invention, regardless of how difficult or expensive it was to invent. Recognizing independent invention creates the opportunity for a more flexible system. Inventions that are hard to reproduce independently are more valuable to society and should enjoy a longer term than easier ones.

The obvious problem with all of the above of course is how feasible it is to assess whether something was invented "independently". I've addressed that to some degree in this blog post (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121011/14171220681/yes-in...), but I admit it's a hard problem.

EDIT: Typos

Re: Court: Google infringed patents, must pay 1.36 percent of AdWords revenue

#85

Good. There are few things which can effect change better than billionaires in fear of losing hundreds of millions of dollars a year. When it happens to small fry you lament because they can't do anything to change and end up settling to save themselves or losing and losing everything. When it happens to the 55th largest company you rejoice because they have the power and motivation to change the rules.

I remember thinking exactly that, when Microsoft was hit by the $100M Stac Electronics judgement in 1993. "Surely large companies will understand now that they have a lot more to lose from software patents than they could possibly have to gain," I said to myself. "I'll bet they're calling their pet Congressmen and writing checks this very minute." I've been wrong before, but not usually that wrong.

Instead they played that same game and are now part of the big software patent companies. In a selfish perspective, it does make sense.

I fear Google one day understands that they should join this mafia and start suing for their patents, under the pressure of their shareholders.

Re: Court: Google infringed patents, must pay 1.36 percent of AdWords revenue

#86
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, why an ongoing 1.36% cut? What's the significance of that number? Might as well peel back the layers on this farce.

Read the article, it explains the percentage calculation.

I did, still seems kinda arbitrary..

Re: Court: Google infringed patents, must pay 1.36 percent of AdWords revenue

#87
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is it, not sure how you could read this another way. When reading the article it hit me that this was a great bit of business from Microsoft. A million dollars isn't much for MS to pay to make this go away... and then only paying 5% of Google will be forced to pay if they lose in court.. Microsoft's legal advisor must be happy with himself today

Well I don't see how it is a Win for MS when their ad revenue is ~3% that of Google. In a sense, aren't they paying more ?

> Well I don't see how it is a Win for MS when their ad revenue is ~3% that of Google. In a sense, aren't they paying more ?

How do you figure?

Microsoft earned $3.2 billion in the Online Services division in fiscal year 2013. According to Microsoft's annual report, advertising accounted for "nearly all of" that division's revenues.

$3.2 billion is about 5.6% of Google's trailing 12 months revenues of $57 billion. Subtract out Motorola, and it's about 6% of Google's ad revenues.

What's more, the settlement locks in Microsoft's liability at 5% of Google's. If Microsoft were to grow its share vs. Google, then it would get to pay less than the proportional amount.

Re: Court: Google infringed patents, must pay 1.36 percent of AdWords revenue

#88
post #19

FUCK PATENTS. The old system (copyright, IP, etc) needs to BURN TO THE GROUND.

Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Fuck software patents... Absolutely. Copyright... Not so much. That is actually useful. Open source and free software would not work without copyright law. Copyright only triggers when you copy somebody else's work, I.e. a specific expression of an idea. Patents trigger when you merely happen to have the same idea.

Except that the current system of enforcement is broken and the current length of copyright is ridiculous.

Re: Court: Google infringed patents, must pay 1.36 percent of AdWords revenue

#90
What's also terrible about the patent system is there is simply no way for any of us to tell, when we develop something, if we're infringing on patents or not. We're all subject, at any time, to being subject to some massive infringement lawsuit.

What I do not understand is why the big companies do not all get together and lobby to abolish software patents. Do they think that if they acquire enough patents, they will win? They all seem to be losing as many patent suits as they win. Pyrrhic victories all around.

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