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We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

startupsanonymous.com

131–140 of 205 posts

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. Not paying yourself is fooling yourself into believing you have a sustainable business. What you have is a source of revenue (not income) and it should be mentally in the "side projects" category. I.e. you should probably have a job and do this on the side. The stories about people who didn't pay themselves but finally made it are far between and is not recommended IMHO.

Isn't not paying yourself simply an amortized investment of your own money into the business? As long as you are getting a good equity deal on that, and you could make that same investment at the outset, but don't HAVE to - why not?

You're not making the same investment at the outset: you're doubling down after the business has already demonstrated "I'm failing quickly, unlike the median funded startup, which is failing marginally less quickly." [+] In return for assuming that extra risk, you get no marginal gain in equity.

If you absolutely must shoot your own foot, clean the wound after doing so, because gangrene sucks even more than gunshots (though that is not an argument for gunshots). Continue taking a salary. Loan your take home pay back to the company. Get a written IOU. In the unlikely event that the company goes on to thrive, the company can repay that IOU like it repays any other debt.

This is a really stupid lending decision by any objective measure. You're loaning money at a ridiculously below-market interest rate to a company which you know to be failing and where you know that you have zero ability to meaningfully collect from the principals (because moving money from your left pocket to your right pocket doesn't help you). You are not getting additional equity for this loan, like e.g. a convertible note would entitle you to. ("Why not make it a convertible note?" Because your existing investors will go apeshit if you self-deal. Founder equity only ever goes down, never up. That's as close to an iron law as the Valley has.) But it's less stupid than simply forgoing your salary for a while, because there's less downside with the taxman (whether the company succeeds or fails) and the possibility of you being made whole again if the company succeeds.

[+] Not making fun of anybody here. You care about your burn rate and cash on hand for a reason. Cash on hand divided by burn rate equals how many months you have until the business fails, absent an injection of extra capital.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#132
I wrote http://mystartuphas30daystolive.tumblr.com

Like you, I raised money, went through a top accelerator and had a wild ride that doomed in failure.

It's ok to be terrified. It's ok to hurt. Fear paralyzes. You will pull your socks up and do what you need to do. It'll hurt more than you know. You'll quickly separate your real friends from the rest. And then something amazing will happen, your life will go on.

The first thing you'll notice is how much of life you've missed while riding the startup "high life". Big things like love, family, reality will suddenly become clearer and no longer dimmed by the tinnitus of whatever TechStars derivative you've been through.

The next is that you're a hell of a lot wiser. You'll find a job and you'll start performing. You'll look like a legend because the pace and agility you learned to work at during your startup days will make you a rockstar anywhere you decide to put your talents to use.

Your performance will bring more money, and power (to a degree) than you've ever made before. You'll make up for lost time.

And then, like all of us, you'll hear the siren song of entrepreneurship beckon you out into the world again. You'll pick up the pieces and start anew.

Ride the wave, brother/sister. Godspeed.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#133
ummm... Didn't we invented a marvelous escape hatch called "aqui-hires" exactly for this situations? If you have even moderately connected investors, you should be able to get aqui-hired in a week or two, very likely sipping pina colada on a Caribbean beach to stretch out before you start the new job with giant bonus vesting schedule that beats any of your colleges. Plus you get to update your Linked-In profiles with "CEO & Founder of Fantastic Startup (Acquired by whatever)". There are no loosers in startup world anymore, AFAIK.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#134
post #12

If you can run a startup, you're employable as a consultant to at least enough people to make ends meet. Reach out to your personal networks and try and stem the tide a bit. We've all been there at some point in our life, there's nothing shameful about working for others to make ends meet. And even though most of us hate the idea of working for other people, at some points in life you have to put your ego and pride a…

> Reach out to your personal networks and try and stem the tide a bit. I'm not in OP's position at all, but I'm wondering what you mean by this. Would you just call/email people you know and ask if they need help with their business?

Generally, you'll end up connected to similar guys in your field after you've been running a startup for a while. You can reach out to them and say that you're offering XYZ consulting services in an effort to pseudo-bootstrap your company while still working on improving traction for your company. Most business people will actually really respect that, in fact.

It really depends on how well you've networked though. At the very least, you can start picking up random gigs on Craigslist or even contract work if you have any technical skills to at least keep money coming in in the short term so you can afford some breathing room.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#135
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health insurance companies can no longer deny coverage based on credit scores, although apparently credit scores can impact your rates. Like I said: I have a very crappy credit score, and it's had no impact on my life (including the times I've tried to buy private health insurance, which was a nightmare for reasons having nothing to do with credit and everything to do with the fact that the ACA hadn't passed yet). Ot…

keep me out of the market for credit. A good thing Have you never wanted to get a mortgage? For that matter, lots of landlords in Vancouver check credit scores in order to weed out potential bad tenants.

[deleted]

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't not paying yourself simply an amortized investment of your own money into the business? As long as you are getting a good equity deal on that, and you could make that same investment at the outset, but don't HAVE to - why not?

You're not making the same investment at the outset: you're doubling down after the business has already demonstrated "I'm failing quickly, unlike the median funded startup, which is failing marginally less quickly." [+] In return for assuming that extra risk, you get no marginal gain in equity. If you absolutely must shoot your own foot, clean the wound after doing so, because gangrene sucks even more than gunshots…

I still don't get why it's a bad idea to forgo salary in a venture where you retain majority ownership. It sure seems like there are loads and loads of people who spun up successful businesses on sweat equity. Way more than have ever taken funding.

If it's not a capital intensive business and your cost of living is low, why on earth wouldn't you minimize investors to the extent possible? If you've got $300k in savings and cheap digs, your percentage ownership of the upside is the concern, not getting a check for $3k every month.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#137
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the top of your payment priority list: Remit to the U.S. Treasury the required withholding for employees' federal income-tax and Social Security / Medicare tax. The IRS will come for your house if you don't.

2nd that - my parents lost their business. Before they did, their idiotic "accountant" lied to my dad about having paid withholdings. They went into receivership actually owing a great deal in taxes that they could have paid (they paid other creditors first). My parents lost everything and are still in deep trouble w/ the IRS. Pay your taxes before anything else.

I hope they sued the accountant for damages?

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#139
post #18

Been there. * If your payables and debts are all in the company's name, nobody is coming for your house. The likelihood that your business was going to die before you could pay all your debts was priced into your contracts. If you have employees, pay them and get them off your books first; employee wages are, depending on the state you're in, the one likely exception to that rule. * If they were in your name, well, t…

> Think of it this way: had your company been successful, it almost certainly would have left you in a state where you'd be working for someone else for a couple years during your earnout. "Not working for someone else" was never really on the table.

Wow, I'd never really thought about it that way before. You're completely right, of course.

It's just rather depressing. Maybe I'll go re-read Rework.

Re: We're Shutting Down and I'm Scared

#140
post #99
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to Thomas being right about employee wages being able to "pierce the veil" in many states, they're the people most at risk in this situation, so you owe it to them to make sure they're taken care of. It's the one circumstance where I would backstop a company problem with personal funds. (If your company was also behind on e.g. rent or hosting, on the other hand, that risk was priced into contractual terms…

The dumbest thing I've ever done in my career was to start a "founders don't take salary" company after earning a windfall from the sale of the last company I'd been at. Most companies fail. That company was no exception. The personal cost was spectacular. Most HN'ers seem to be in their mid-20s. Something you'll learn when you cross 30 is that time is more valuable than money. You'll never get the years you spend ch…

I'm trying to understand the context and limits of your advice, in light of the chicken-and-egg problem of getting people to invest in or buy your product before proving it out, which usually requires building something to show it's possible, which usually requires quitting your previous employer so they don't own it. Are you suggesting that forgoing salary shouldn't be a substitute for thinking about your revenue model, which I'd probably agree with? That thinking "I have money in the bank, I'm fine for now" makes you less hungry and less likely to take the actions you need to succeed? That one should know when to quit and should never let dreams get in the way of facts?

Or are you saying that forgoing salary is always a bad idea? If you are, how else are we supposed to start a product company? It seems like it's a worse idea to take investment without having done some minimal homework and prototyping to prove out the market, which usually requires at least building something you can show to customers. It's a very bad idea from a legal standpoint to do that work while you're still employed by somebody else. Consulting -> product conversions can work, but it's often really hard to make time for product development while consulting.

From my own perspective - I started a "founders don't take salary" company when I was 2 years out of college. It failed miserably, predictably - it was a terrible idea to begin with, and I folded it up once I realized I was in over my head. But I think starting it was one of the best decisions I made in my lifetime, because the skills and perspective I gained from it got me a job that paid enough that I made back that year after about a year of employment. I'm now in a position where I have a bunch saved up, and I'm trying to weigh my options rationally. I'd like to avoid making stupid mistakes, but I'm also mindful of how the #1 regret of most elderly people, on their deathbeds, is that they wish they'd taken more risks.

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