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Why Japan’s Cellphones Haven’t Gone Global

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Japan’s Cellphones Haven’t Gone Global

#11

Post by evgen »

staunch wrote: post #3

Broadcast television is the only cool thing about Japanese phones, that I miss on my iPhone. I just wish my iPhone could get broadcast (HD?)TV. Is there a reason it couldn't?

Other than live sporting events, can you think of anything that broadcast TV would provide that can't be served by the download/sync model? Given the additional chipsets and battery drain from heavy network use I can't see how Apple would view this particular desire as anything more than a need to break the populace from this idea that you watch video programs when some TV network thinks that you should watch them. If the content producers offered Apple access to their content at the same per-subscriber price point that they offer the content to the cable networks then your desires would be met in a much more interesting and appealing fashion.

Re: Why Japan’s Cellphones Haven’t Gone Global

#12

Post by nimrody »

Ennis wrote: post #2

The article misses a very important point. Carriers have very thorough certification processes. Imagine each of these companies having to certify each device. They would go bankrupt! Well maybe not, but they would not make any money to make it worth while. ATT has the toughest certification process - so much so that others won't even look at new phones unless ATT has agreed to certify them. ATT certification is like…

You seem to indicate that Japan's carriers has less strict certification process than AT&T's.

My personal experience with NTT DoCoMo (one of the largest carriers in Japan) has been exactly the opposite. Certificaiton has been a very difficult and long process.

Re: Why Japan’s Cellphones Haven’t Gone Global

#13

Post by patio11 »

delayclose wrote: post #5

The article speaks of excess hardware making the phones "surprisingly clunky", but really the phones don't have any hardware that you wouldn't find in a top of the line Nokia, and the software is more or less equally shitty to use. What the Japanese phones do have is software features that rely on carrier support (like iphone's visual voice mail) and widely available cheap data transfer rates, but the actual phones r…

The Internet browsing is real enough to do gmail, NYT, and my admin interface without a line of modification from this bog standard flip phone. Oh, obviously, hn works too.

Sounds like a feature to me...

Re: Why Japan’s Cellphones Haven’t Gone Global

#14

Post by delayclose »

patio11 wrote: post #13
delayclose wrote: post #5

The article speaks of excess hardware making the phones "surprisingly clunky", but really the phones don't have any hardware that you wouldn't find in a top of the line Nokia, and the software is more or less equally shitty to use. What the Japanese phones do have is software features that rely on carrier support (like iphone's visual voice mail) and widely available cheap data transfer rates, but the actual phones r…

The Internet browsing is real enough to do gmail, NYT, and my admin interface without a line of modification from this bog standard flip phone. Oh, obviously, hn works too. Sounds like a feature to me...

But you can do that on pretty much any western smartphone, and it's not a particularly new feature. Whether it's good enough to encourage mass adoption is another thing entirely. The Japanese phones do not have a new amazing browser that makes Opera Mini and the Webkit-based browsers common in western phones look like crap, nor do they have bigger, high-resolution screens. The mass adoption webbrowsing on cellphones in Japan is due to widespread use of cellphone-friendly layouts (single narrow column with minimal graphics) on Japanese webpages, and cheaper data plans.

Re: Why Japan’s Cellphones Haven’t Gone Global

#15

Post by bartl »

delayclose wrote: post #5

The article speaks of excess hardware making the phones "surprisingly clunky", but really the phones don't have any hardware that you wouldn't find in a top of the line Nokia, and the software is more or less equally shitty to use. What the Japanese phones do have is software features that rely on carrier support (like iphone's visual voice mail) and widely available cheap data transfer rates, but the actual phones r…

>I'd say that if Japanese phones ever become a hit in the west, it's because of the cool and different designs rather than features.

And that is, according to this article, exactly their problem: the Japanese are just too focussed on features.

Re: Why Japan’s Cellphones Haven’t Gone Global

#16

Post by Yrlec »

jrockway wrote: post #10
delayclose wrote: post #5

The article speaks of excess hardware making the phones "surprisingly clunky", but really the phones don't have any hardware that you wouldn't find in a top of the line Nokia, and the software is more or less equally shitty to use. What the Japanese phones do have is software features that rely on carrier support (like iphone's visual voice mail) and widely available cheap data transfer rates, but the actual phones r…

Yeah, the features in the Japanese market are mostly due to the ease of expanding infrastructure. I remember getting a plan with Au that only had the good features in the Tokyo metro area. That was fine, as I never left that area. Millions of other people were in the same boat. Maybe they left the Tokyo area once or twice a year, but other than that, never. In the US, that would never fly. The people that are willing…

Popluation density doesn't completely explain it. For instance here in Sweden we also have 100Mbps Internet-connection for about $20-$30/month and flat-rate 3g data-plans and we aren't exactly densily populated (#192 in the world according to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population...). Here I think it has a lot to do with the fact that government has been pushing a lot for better IT-infrastructure.

I'm personally I strong believer in the free market, however sometimes the market is too short-sighted to make investments that will benefit society in the long run. Infrastructure and education are good examples of that. It's hard for private investors to get good ROI on things like roads, IT-networks and schools because it takes many years to get any return and it's hard to charge people as much as it actually benefits the public.

I saw and interview with Bill Gates where he basically said that this was his rationale behind the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. The market simply doesn't maximize the amount of lives saved per dollar and you need non-profit organizations to do that.

Re: Why Japan’s Cellphones Haven’t Gone Global

#17

Post by joe_adk »

delayclose wrote: post #5

The article speaks of excess hardware making the phones "surprisingly clunky", but really the phones don't have any hardware that you wouldn't find in a top of the line Nokia, and the software is more or less equally shitty to use. What the Japanese phones do have is software features that rely on carrier support (like iphone's visual voice mail) and widely available cheap data transfer rates, but the actual phones r…

I have to agree with the "equally shitty to use" statement. One of the other problems is that it is hard to get the features you want in a phone that you want. It's along the lines of "GPS, Bluetooth and good Camera: pick any 2." Yu do, however, get a bunch of features that you never need. That, and they seem to have used their mailroom staff to design the UI. People always think they are so advanced. Maybe they were ten years ago, but now not so much.

Re: Why Japan’s Cellphones Haven’t Gone Global

#19

Post by delayclose »

bartl wrote: post #15
delayclose wrote: post #5

The article speaks of excess hardware making the phones "surprisingly clunky", but really the phones don't have any hardware that you wouldn't find in a top of the line Nokia, and the software is more or less equally shitty to use. What the Japanese phones do have is software features that rely on carrier support (like iphone's visual voice mail) and widely available cheap data transfer rates, but the actual phones r…

>I'd say that if Japanese phones ever become a hit in the west, it's because of the cool and different designs rather than features. And that is, according to this article, exactly their problem: the Japanese are just too focussed on features.

Oh well, I think I have to disagree with the article there. The Japanese may have different tastes than the western audience, but there definitely is a huge amount of effort spent on just how the phones look. There are cool design choices (like the swivel screen mentioned in the article), boring ones (dozens of different color casings), and a huge amount of after-market customization paraphenelia (stickers, "jewellery", straps, etc.) available. Some cell phone stores and craft stores have prominent displays showing off ridiculously overdone pimped phones covered in gleaming stickers.

What I meant to say earlier was that this look could appeal to some people in the west too. Some people just want something that looks different than the iphone or razr. I know my wife loved the cute pink clamshell phone she had in Japan (that I spent days trying to jailbreak afterwards).

Re: Why Japan’s Cellphones Haven’t Gone Global

#20

Post by jsonscripter »

Yrlec wrote: post #16
jrockway wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the features in the Japanese market are mostly due to the ease of expanding infrastructure. I remember getting a plan with Au that only had the good features in the Tokyo metro area. That was fine, as I never left that area. Millions of other people were in the same boat. Maybe they left the Tokyo area once or twice a year, but other than that, never. In the US, that would never fly. The people that are willing…

Popluation density doesn't completely explain it. For instance here in Sweden we also have 100Mbps Internet-connection for about $20-$30/month and flat-rate 3g data-plans and we aren't exactly densily populated (#192 in the world according to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population... ). Here I think it has a lot to do with the fact that government has been pushing a lot for better IT-i…

And here in Canada we pay 30$/MB for over-the-air data, and a 5Mb (that's mega-bit, not byte) internet connection is almost 50$ per month. That's also pretty much the fastest you can get even in the capital (Ottawa). God I feel like I'm living in a third-world country.
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