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Tesla Completes L.A.-to-New York Electric Model S Drive Chargers

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Re: Tesla Completes L.A.-to-New York Electric Model S Drive Chargers

#151

Post by encoderer »

abalone wrote: post #135
encoderer wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that more often you're stopping for more than just gas. Lunch. Bathroom. Clean your windshield. You add it up, it's longer than 10 mins anyway, so this doesn't affect you all that much. Also I take issue with the logic that fuel savings don't matter if you're spending that much on a car anyway. I don't see it that way at all. Being able to pay like $1k/mo car payment doesn't yet put you in "money…

Why does the level of discourse around this subject need to be so disingenuous? There is definitely a time penalty at stops. Meals are the only one of those things that takes longer than 10 minutes. You do that maybe a couple times a day. With the model s you are stopping about every 2.5-3 hours for 30 minutes. Exactly one or two of those stops might involve a half hour meal, where it doesn't make a difference. The r…

Disingenuous? Hey buddy, GFY.

Last year I drove from Florida to San Francisco. We did it over 5 days, my wife and I with our dog.

We stopped as-needed and always more than 10 minutes. Just filling the tank & handling payment takes that long. But in reality, you NEED to clean the windshield to clear off the bug splatter. And you NEED to use the facilities. Probably you and your passengers. And you really WANT a moment to stand up and stretch your legs anyway.

Does it always take 30 minutes? Certainly not. Twenty? Probably more like it.

"Just not accurate"? "enthusiasts need to pretend?" From where I'm sitting your comment here is a contender for A-hole of the Thread award. Congrats, you must be so proud.

I take issue with your accusations. I wrote what I wrote in good faith based on my somewhat recent experience with the cross-country road trip. I don't look politely on somebody like yourself suggesting otherwise.

Re: Tesla Completes L.A.-to-New York Electric Model S Drive Chargers

#152

Post by mcphilip »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #3

>> provide 170 miles of range in a 30-minute charge That would have still sounded impractical to me when I was still able to just drive through the night to get where I needed to be. Now that I travel with a young baby and a dog, that's about how often and for how long I have to stop for breaks anyway. This is impressive progress anyway, but I'm especially impressed now that it really wouldn't alter my own schedule m…

Sadly it still sounds unreasonable for the 196 mile (frequently business related) trip between Austin and Dallas. There will probably always be some commonly non-stop traveled distance just outside their range, but I presume it'll be marginal.

Re: Tesla Completes L.A.-to-New York Electric Model S Drive Chargers

#153

Post by DrStalker »

btilly wrote: post #139
atourgates wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just doing some quick numbers (not related to current specific locations of quick chargers and gas stations), stopping 30 minutes every 170 miles would add a bit over 6 and a half hours of stopping to a LY->NYC trip. LA -> NYC is about 2,800 miles. If you had to stop for 30 minutes every 170 miles, that'd be 16.5 stops, for a total of about 8.25 hours of charging stops. If you assume 25mpg in a car with a 12 gallon t…

If you're driving long distance, you should be stopping for a break every hour or two just to stretch your body and keep mentally alert. These stops are not quite the right rhythm, but they are not a bad idea either.

A more common scenario is my experience is a quick stop to change drivers; solo you need proper breaks, if you have multiple drivers sharing the load then you can drive for a lot longer before fatigue is an issue.

Re: Tesla Completes L.A.-to-New York Electric Model S Drive Chargers

#154

Post by abalone »

codex wrote: post #147
abalone wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting now that Tesla has answered the folks saying "the most serious issue with electric cars is road trips," now we get this. I'm a little skeptical of the "half of the driving population won't be able to charge" claim. For example, you don't necessarily need to own your off-street parking spot for the owner to upgrade it to increase its value. And I doubt on-street overnight parkers constitute anywhere c…

It's Tesla that has defined the problem with electric cars as road trip refueling. Most EV dealers offer free loaners for road trips, or you can rent a car. Even vampire loads at airport parking in low temperatures is of higher priority for most drivers. They're misdirecting from the main issue to one that they can solve cheaply. I'm saying this as someone who owns two electric cars. The infrastructure can be solved…

Valid points esp. about the vampire loads in cold weather. If you remember that NYT reviewer who stalled out, if you look at the details, maybe the biggest factor was parking overnight in the deep cold at a hotel without plugging in. I found it very distasteful how Musk attacked the reporter's integrity in response.

I am just saying "a large portion of the population can't buy an EV" is like saying "a large portion of the population can't buy a Macintosh" in 1984. If the biggest problem you see is that people don't park their cars near chargers right now, that seems like a tractable problem. (And I would think much moreso than making hydrogen mainstream.)

Re: Tesla Completes L.A.-to-New York Electric Model S Drive Chargers

#155

Post by vellum »

base698 wrote: post #32
fit2rule wrote: post #14

I hope actually that Americans learn to drive less , not more, as a result of these sorts of changes in the market. It always amuses me that a majority of American life is lived on the road. For all the pleasures of the free and the brave, they love their little cages..

After moving to California 3 years ago I've seen stretches of Utah, Arizona, Nevada, Idaho, and of course California I'd never have seen without a car. Gotten to go to places impractical with any other transportation. I can't really imagine not having a car for my weekend trips. I get not wanting to stay in a car for 40 minutes each way on a weekly commute, but being trapped in a city like LA or San Francisco with no…

but being trapped in a city like LA or San Francisco with no access to the boundless natural beauty

In SF, you can always to take the ferry to Marin.

Re: Tesla Completes L.A.-to-New York Electric Model S Drive Chargers

#156

Post by revelation »

r00fus wrote: post #95
grecy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The side of history that can't afford a Tesla S Yet. There were millions that couldn't afford an automobile when they came out too you know..... Give it time, stop thinking a new product has to be everything to everyone so early on.

Range is a significant factor of the Tesla's cost, and it'd require a order of magnitude of efficiency increase to both support a cheaper model while also keeping the same charging range and keeping Tesla's profit margins in place.

Posting this on HN, of all things... processing power improved hundredfold in just 20 years. With every step, Intel just sold more of the things with better margins.

Re: Tesla Completes L.A.-to-New York Electric Model S Drive Chargers

#157

Post by superJoy »

omegant wrote: post #96
digikata wrote: post #35

It's too bad you couldn't just hitch a secondary external battery pack to a mini-trailer hitched to the car for long distances. Roll into a station, unhitch the pack, swap for charged one, go on your way maybe 15 min later. I know there are proposals for swappable internal packs, with automatic swap machinery at the station, but a trailer hitch and external plug requires a lower capital investment, and is much less i…

Or for reaching the distant city a gasoline generator in the small trailer. Making it a plugable hybrid.

Or build said generator into the car and sell the whole thing for half the price of a Tesla :)

[x] http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html

Re: Tesla Completes L.A.-to-New York Electric Model S Drive Chargers

#158

Post by mturmon »

encoderer wrote: post #151
abalone wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the level of discourse around this subject need to be so disingenuous? There is definitely a time penalty at stops. Meals are the only one of those things that takes longer than 10 minutes. You do that maybe a couple times a day. With the model s you are stopping about every 2.5-3 hours for 30 minutes. Exactly one or two of those stops might involve a half hour meal, where it doesn't make a difference. The r…

Disingenuous? Hey buddy, GFY. Last year I drove from Florida to San Francisco. We did it over 5 days, my wife and I with our dog. We stopped as-needed and always more than 10 minutes. Just filling the tank & handling payment takes that long. But in reality, you NEED to clean the windshield to clear off the bug splatter. And you NEED to use the facilities. Probably you and your passengers. And you really WANT a moment…

You're being needlessly aggressive. The comment to which you are responding was raising a reasonable point.

Re: Tesla Completes L.A.-to-New York Electric Model S Drive Chargers

#159

Post by 001sky »

protomyth wrote: post #75
thrownaway2424 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it counterproductive to drive a model s at high speeds cross-country? You get an extra ~40 miles of range by going 65 instead of 75.

Going 65 on a 75 highway is going to be a problem since your speed difference with most cars is what causes the problems in highway driving. Breaking flow of traffic is not a good idea. I can assure you that doing 65mph on I-90 through South Dakota is a really, really bad idea. Its listed as 75mph and that would be the low-end for what people do. Nevermind the wind that is probably going to kill your range.

Nevermind the wind that is probably going to kill your range

This is a good point, I wonder what the energy burden is going to be from that. You also need to factor in the impracticality of travel in the winter season (ie, near 0 deg F) in the east, or the very cold desert west of the Continental divide, particulalry at night (which is also extended in the winter).

Re: Tesla Completes L.A.-to-New York Electric Model S Drive Chargers

#160

Post by DrStalker »

codex wrote: post #133

The most serious issue with electric cars isn't road trips, it's the fact that if you don't own your own home, or live in a dense city with no off street parking, you likely don't have reliable access to a daily recharge overnight. That's probably half the driving population of America. 30 minutes of quick charging is fine every so often, but not every day or even every week. This is why fuel cells continue to be pus…

It's an issue that makes electric impossible for me; I can reliably get a park on my street (Sydney inner-west) but I can't reliably park in front on my house.

We also have a usage pattern that mostly involves small electric-sized trips but sometimes involves a solid day of driving to get somewhere distant and back; this is always done with two or more drivers haring the load and driving near non-stop; no time for 30 minute charge breaks.

Electric cars are absolutely no use to me at the moment, but that's fine and I'll get an electric car if circumstance change in the future.

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