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How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

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Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I gathered from your comment is that you are a PhD holder who doesn't know what "marxism" is.

Presumptively the 'most important' things that Marx believed is the idea that the workers should "control the means of production"[1] via a centrally organized apparatus, preferably the state, plus theoretically orthogonal (except to the keepers of the faith) stuff like labor theory of value, distinction between productive and unproductive labor, and dialectic model for social progression, plus a little bit of pining…

My post was a bit of a rant, admittedly. I am reading Das Kapital now and have found it useful - I am an engineer, so yes, "central planning" is a unrealistic ideal (how does the behavior or organization of the Federal Reserve not fall under "central planning"?) But as a work of philosophy, the ideas in Das Kapital are useful - labor theory of value, productive / unproductive labor, etc. My first draft got long, so I'll try to keep this short.

As for your situation, it to me seems more like the corrupt quasi-totalitarian system involving oligarchs and Ayn Rand's "moochers" and etc - crony capitalism? It doesn't sound anything marxist to me - the Soviet Union was not communism, despite whatever they claimed. And America is hardly a democracy... People are fundamentally corrupt, especially when there is money and power involved.

Re: "control of the means of production" - let me explain it this way. In London, I got hired to build a website and somehow it turned into me being employee-ish #1 (and the only one) for a B2B startup. In my contract (one for contractors) was a clause about my ability to stop work and demand payment for late invoices at any time. But IT startup culture is not really like that - you get the job done, right? It is hard, and professionalism counts for everything. So in my mind, it was the nuclear option - I need to use that, then the relationship with my client has irrevocably broken down because step 2 is calling in the lawyers. But the CEO of this startup, who is a lazy, shiftless, and sociopathic bastard, leveraged that work ethic to the point where he was refusing to pay everyone's invoices (me and the salesguys) - "cash flow problems". But we still kept working, to keep the company running. While this bastard took skiing vacations - he and the other founder did very little work, really. All they did was put up a bunch of cash and had an idea and no skill what so ever relevant for the task, except how to exploit the workers and scam the customers with badly written contracts.

It all came to a head when one customer threatened to sue - he'd been flat out lied to about the nature of the data he was being sold. I fixed the situation - I was the engineer - and then demanded payment. They point blank told me to go fuck myself, deliberately breaching the contract.

This is when I realized I 'control the means of production' - I was the -only- person in this 5person company who could do anything useful of value. I was the one generating all the value (the code, the systems). I was labor and had been fucked over by capital, who brought nothing to the table except money. They didn't even bring a work ethic. Well, the salesguys, but their function was to take my output and get customers interested in it. All capital did was think up ways to exploit both customers and workers. So I controlled the means (because everything I did was the foundation of the company) and I did not use that power to my benefit to counteract the predations of the evil capitalist pig I was dealing with. I should have gone on strike; that's what that clause in the contract was for. But middle class white collar Americans don't have that mentality, and especially IT people. My introduction to the real world utility of Marxist philosophy was a harsh one...

Fundamentally, my mistake was not realizing I was my own corporation, and not an employee, and so had the responsibility of acting as sociopathic as need be in order to deal with 'corporations' or people who are doing the same. I hate doing that - it is not in my nature or mentality. I guess mentally, I am more working class. I prefer to cooperate with people than exploit them and I would guess this goes for most people in IT.

So what are you producing that other people higher up in the hierarchy are appropriating for their own and exclusive benefit? It sounds like you have decided to become capital yourself, which I encourage - today's ethos of engineers starting their own companies is a good thing, one that really wasn't happening when I started in IT. So hopefully the lazy capitalist pigs who do nothing but exploit labor can be cut out of the equation eventually... But don't exploit the people who work for you!

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#472
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want to know what marxism is like in america? Try academic research science. Pay lines for postdocs are effectively set by a centalized agency - NIH guidelines. There's limited market and a captive, oversupplied labor pool, zero ownership of the means of production ("it all goes for the collective effort"). Advancement is not meritocratic, but rather a combination of being in the right place when a position op…

Bravo. The absurdity of some of the highest paid people in the world calling for a revolution is really comical to an immigrant like me. Not to say that the collusion was not despicable.

I was hardly very well paid - I was constantly paid late and should have been charging the assholes I was working for double my rate. Perhaps a good way to explain the problem is a) let's say I got paid $50/hr. Task A takes me 1 hour and I go and generate some work product that fulfills a customer's request. B) this customer is paying $2000 a month for their problem to be solved. You have to take into account as well the cost of the system that I built that task A is built upon, so let's say that cost $5000.

So in 3 months, the cost as paid by the capitalist pig has been fully paid for, and from then on, in perpetuity, there is nothing but $2000/month in profit that goes strictly into the piggy bank of the greedy capitalist pig. Meanwhile, I don't even get paid the $50 he owes me on time.

As a white collar professional who is doing _all_ the work, while capitalist pig goes on skiing vacations, this is really galling. Ok, I can quit or go work for someone else, or build my competing system (then get sued by the sociopath)... I think this shows how the pay of CEOs etc over the past 20 years has risen to astronomically insulting levels while everyone else who literally enables that is getting shafted. If the CEO does a whole lot of work, then I won't begrudge them some difference in pay. But such a difference compared to what they actually do in terms of effort? No, not when CEOs etc in general seem to be able to avoid responsibility for their screwups so easily.

The system is out of balance. It really has nothing to do with the amount of money involved.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#474
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Er yeah. The 'people' i.e. astroturfed left-wing activists are protesting the employees, not the CEOs.

Please. I know activists like the Google bus protesters. I'd call them protest enthusiasts, and usually less than half work for professional activist outfits. Most have regular jobs and just love to protest. The "astroturf" is fwd.us and peers.org are pure astroturf. You can't even get a political position out of them until their lobbyists have written the legislation and tried to insert it into some bill.

False dichotomy. Both are astroturf.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously consider Steve Jobs to be a sociopath.

How can he be so successful otherwise? By a certain measure of successful.

He wasn't successful at being a human being. That counts for a lot in my book.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's just no way that every (or even most) companies in, say, the US, are all collectively colluding to do much of anything, much less fix wages. There's a reason that cartels don't really work, and that's because somebody always has an incentive to cheat. Same deal here... even IF you got every single company to agree to fix programmer salaries, it would never hold up, because some member of the group would eithe…

It doesn't take every company, it realistically takes less then 30%. I have never seen companies trying to pay more then the bare minimum to get someone to fill the role. Being generous, sadly, isn't in the DNA of the majority of organizations. They always attempt to pay as little as needed.

Of course they do. The secret ingredients are competition and bidding wars.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#477
post #439
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement " So every time you switch companies, you're starting the clock over again." is incorrect. After your i-140 is cleared and you have received your priority date you can port your i-140 and retain your priority date. Your clock doesn't reset per se.

Good information. "Port your I-140" though?

Oops, good question. You port your priority date not your i-140. The new employer still needs to apply for a new i-140 with your previous PD. This way you don't lose your place in the queue.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done this same calculation and I found the opposite. And after I moved I realized that you have to also factor in how much more awesome the Bay Area is. I've been able to be outside most days this winter hiking and doing other outdoor activities. I can't imagine going back to winters where I'm trapped indoors.

That's not entirely valid, that's a subjective judgement. I live in Chicago and I hate the outdoors. Just a simple back of the envelope calculation tells you Chicago software developers make about the same or more ( because trading companies pay more ) as SF developers yet cost of living is 2.5-3 times higher in SF. It's hard to explain this as a mere correlation with the known fact of illegal collusion.

Trading companies do pay well, but that's a pretty boring and not value-adding industry to pigeonhole oneself into, and the corporate culture is beyond terrible. There aren't a plethora of interesting jobs sw devs can jump from and to in Chicago. Trust me, I wouldn't have moved if this wasn't the case.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you can only renew the H1-B once (although you can get extensions). Also, most companies make it a policy to not sponsor you for a green card unless you've put in a year or two, and then once you apply for it they've got you by the balls. So every time you switch companies, you're starting the clock over again. This is even worse if a company brings you in through some other visa like a TN-1 or L1 (NAFTA an…

Your comment about TN makes no sense to me. TN is not an immigration-intent visa - if you apply for a green card while on a TN, you have to maintain an address in Canada and prove that you plan to return there. This is very difficult to do, and your green card will almost certainly be rejected and you might be allowed back into the US on the TN. So of course they make you switch to H1B before they'll sponsor your gre…

Not quite. It's certainly possible to enter the US on a TN visa to work with the intention of returning to Canada but also intending on becoming an immigrant at some point in the future. Yes, you do need to maintain ties to Canada when you enter under the TN visa, but there is no requirement that you need to be on an H1 when filing for Adjustment of Status.

Here's a link: http://www.tnvisabulletin.com/tn-visa-adjustment-of-status/

I've seen a couple of people do this, and it allowed them to skip the H1-B hassle. You just have to be honest and show that your intention initially is just to work and return to Canada, but your future intention is to become a permanent resident.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really respect Steve Wozniak. But why does he not rebel and leave him. Why does any body surrender when they have a choice unlike most others. And this is the reason i wish there are more people like RMS who are both talented and have deep philosophy.

Would you care to guess why?

I am not able to. Money? It can not be atleast in case of Woz.
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