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What is really happening in Ukraine

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Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#21

Post by arca_vorago »

That's actually a very well done summary. I have an acquaintance that is Ukrainian and I have been asking her about it. Pretty much what happened so far can be summed up as "The leadership betrayed the Ukrainian people to Russia under pressure from Putin" and both of generally agree that it's too late now to stop, and that the protesters have to be at least partially successful or else it is likely there will be more bloodshed.

Being self designated geopolitics guy though, my curiosity is "Where is the US?" We know they were involved in Georgia in 08, and we know the US has a vested interest in giving the Russians a black eye, so I would think they would be involved somehow, but have not seen as such.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#22

Post by hackerboos »

stargazer-3 wrote: post #15
bitL wrote: post #11

Why don't you guys split Ukraine into two parts? The western part (pre-WW2's part of Poland) is pro-western, speaking Ukrainian, the eastern part is mostly inhabited by Russians that gravitate towards Moscow. Why nobody suggests this solution?

Why don't Americans split the USA into two parts, the red one and the blue one?

More than 2 parts:

http://www.clevelandleader.com/files/splitus.JPG

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#23

Post by stargazer-3 »

Igor_TN wrote: post #19

I also grew up in central Ukraine and have my close relatives there. As much as I despise the current government, I must say that this "beautifully done" presentation is completely one-sided, unbalanced, and manipulates with both real and made-up facts. And, this is always non-constructive and even dangerous. The situation is much more complicated. I am really afraid that this is going closer and closer towards a civ…

I have to disagree with you. Care to elaborate on what facts are made-up?

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#24

Post by IgorPartola »

steven2012 wrote: post #18

I heard that there are a lot of nukes in Ukraine and the last thing the world wants is those split off into separate hands. I would harbor a guess that the US would rather have those nukes in the hands of Russia, who is a known evil but rational, vs someone else entirely new. I read on Stratfor that Russia does not want Ukraine to become independent because it's basically the "soft underbelly" leading into Russia. It…

You heard wrong: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine. There are no nukes in Ukraine.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#25

Post by hodgesmr »

steven2012 wrote: post #18

I heard that there are a lot of nukes in Ukraine and the last thing the world wants is those split off into separate hands. I would harbor a guess that the US would rather have those nukes in the hands of Russia, who is a known evil but rational, vs someone else entirely new. I read on Stratfor that Russia does not want Ukraine to become independent because it's basically the "soft underbelly" leading into Russia. It…

Uhm, Ukraine is an independent, sovereign country. Comparing Ukraine to Texas makes no sense.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#26

Post by stargazer-3 »

steven2012 wrote: post #18

I heard that there are a lot of nukes in Ukraine and the last thing the world wants is those split off into separate hands. I would harbor a guess that the US would rather have those nukes in the hands of Russia, who is a known evil but rational, vs someone else entirely new. I read on Stratfor that Russia does not want Ukraine to become independent because it's basically the "soft underbelly" leading into Russia. It…

Ukraine has no nukes. They were disarmed in exchange for security assurances from both Russia and USA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#27

Post by mitchelllc »

stargazer-3 wrote: post #7

This is much more informative and complete than any Western media news report. (Disclosure: I grew up in Kiev)

Yanukovich refused to sign EU association in November. I am wondering if the EU association was approved by most of Ukrainian through voting (or other ways), and Yanukovich disobeyed the voting results.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#29

Post by leobelle »

myth_drannon wrote: post #12
higherpurpose wrote: post #2

Why do some keep calling it a civil war instead of a revolution? Sure, the government has hired/collaborated with non-government people to cause trouble/beat up the protesters, but which tyrannical government doesn't do that during a revolution? They all do it.

Because the descendands of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lviv_pogroms perpetrators will want an ethnically pure Ukraine. And East/South of Ukraine will not allow it. US state department is interested in the break up and pushing west ukr down the throat of EU(Germany) which really is not interested in that right now (EU is going down with PIIGS, but US needs even weaker EU with +50mil dirt poor Ukrainians with extremel…

There's no evidence the US wants a "weaker EU" and I doubt you personally have access to classified state department documents, and nothing of this sort was in any of the documents leaked by Manning. A weak EU is not in America's interest with a rising China and waning influence. The US has continuously asked allies to increase their military spending, so you are just spouting off run-of-the-mill incredulous and unthoughtful anti-american cynicism.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#30

Post by hodgesmr »

bitL wrote: post #11

Why don't you guys split Ukraine into two parts? The western part (pre-WW2's part of Poland) is pro-western, speaking Ukrainian, the eastern part is mostly inhabited by Russians that gravitate towards Moscow. Why nobody suggests this solution?

This worked so great with Germany...
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