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Revolution in Kiev

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Re: Revolution in Kiev

#351

Post by mantas »

thesz wrote: post #342
gritzko wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 I dislike very much the fact of being dragged into a discussion of this kind. Problems of Russian Mail are universally known. 2 Circa 2004 two my parcels arrived to different post offices late and cut open. There was no valuables inside (I wasn't that naive.) Ever since I used express services (DHL, TNT, PE) 3 I heard similar stories from other people (late&open) 4 Recently I received two packages by Russian Mail.…

1 You started that. They started not long time ago, you can see an onset of jokes about Russian Post Service on the popular jokes site bash.im (former bash.org.ru). This onset started about two or three years ago. 2 Me and my friends and relatives had not have problems at the same time. 7 I can cite you horror stories about everything. 20 steps to eat potato and not get screwed. I think you also heard about selection…

To be fair, he posted his experience. Discussion starts when someone questions what somebody said.

Blaming memes is just lame. No good viral meme starts without a reason. Poor memes without any real reason dies way before getting popular.

What's the difference if someone is starting or ending with YMMV? It looks like nitpicking for the sake of writing bigger blob of text.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#353

Post by tiatia »

bluekeybox wrote: post #332
tiatia wrote: post #174

There are two forces clashing. US supported groups (That basically want Ukraine to be part of the EU) and Pro Russian groups (supported by good ol' Putin). Let's hope it all ends well. This is the Bozo who thought it all up: http://www.amazon.com/The-Grand-Chessboard-Geostrategic-Impe...

It's an (somewhat distorted) oversimplification to call this a Cold-War style chess game. Both groups are authentic, i.e. people in Western Ukraine genuinely feel closer to the West while people in Eastern Ukraine genuinely do feel closer to Russia. The US influence is nearly non-existent (if you discount Hollywood movies of course) while Russia exerts very significant influence by placing economic pressure (such as…

I agree that Ukraine is a divided country. This being said: Just recently a newspaper in Beijing had a comic showing the Ukraine as a car. Uncle Sam was shown trying to stir the stirring wheel. This gives you an idea.

Trust me, the US has a strong strong interest of the Ukraine breaking away from US influence.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#354

Post by random123455 »

bluekeybox wrote: post #335
random123455 wrote: post #252

I would like to point to another perspective on what is happening. Like most, i hope, i try to make my views fit to the events that have/are happening rather than them being defined by my views. It seems that the protestors have no other clear goal in mind except joining the EU, this is very hard for a country like Ukraine where many people daily cross the border on their way to work, what happens to them does not co…

> It seems that the protestors have no other clear goal in mind except joining the EU Incorrect, the main goal is to prevent the current government mafia allied with government-connected industrial oligarchs in Donetsk region to become even less representative and even more Russian-controlled. > I wonder if there are Russians living in the west part of Ukraine, how violently would the protestors deal with them. So fa…

>Incorrect, the main goal is to prevent the current government mafia allied with government-connected industrial oligarchs in Donetsk region to become even less representative and even more Russian-controlled

It is just a coincidence that that seems to align with the EU goals. Hatred and emotions have nothing to do with what is happening and noone is using anyone.

>So far... >Again, incorrect, the protests are driven by resentment against the current tightly-connected pro-Russian ruling elite.

Whose actions are sparked by what is viewed by them as not-signing the deal with Russia instead of EU, because it seemed like the final step of evil controlled Ukrainian government stepping closer to Russia. Who it self is lead by a dictator like Putin. Unlike the benevolent EU.

>There is indeed a party with extremely right-wing views that regularly receives up to 8-10% of the vote. However it is questionable as to whether that portion of the population actually holds those beliefs or simply uses them as signaling to antagonize Russia.

I am sure that all others who also supported nazis also supported them for no other reason but to antagonize someone else, ever. I realize that maybe you are correct i should re-check the history of people who were antagonized by nazis.

>Current Western support is nearly non-existent while that of Moscow is extremely significant and some would say heavy-weight.

I fail to see how "Western", the civilized worlds support against corruption and a puppet who is controlled by a tyrant like Putin is non-existent. It has been running for how many years. Media support, pressure on the government and so on, do not spread lies like those, Ukrainians will not know who helped them later. It is not that there is no help it is just that there need to be found more ways to help. Probably some help on the ground too would be good. Putin/Russia/Russian EVIL, EU/US/NATO GOOD.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#355

Post by [deleted] »

random123455 wrote: post #354
bluekeybox wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems that the protestors have no other clear goal in mind except joining the EU Incorrect, the main goal is to prevent the current government mafia allied with government-connected industrial oligarchs in Donetsk region to become even less representative and even more Russian-controlled. > I wonder if there are Russians living in the west part of Ukraine, how violently would the protestors deal with them. So fa…

>Incorrect, the main goal is to prevent the current government mafia allied with government-connected industrial oligarchs in Donetsk region to become even less representative and even more Russian-controlled It is just a coincidence that that seems to align with the EU goals. Hatred and emotions have nothing to do with what is happening and noone is using anyone. >So far... >Again, incorrect, the protests are driven…

[deleted]

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#356

Post by bluekeybox »

tiatia wrote: post #353
bluekeybox wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an (somewhat distorted) oversimplification to call this a Cold-War style chess game. Both groups are authentic, i.e. people in Western Ukraine genuinely feel closer to the West while people in Eastern Ukraine genuinely do feel closer to Russia. The US influence is nearly non-existent (if you discount Hollywood movies of course) while Russia exerts very significant influence by placing economic pressure (such as…

I agree that Ukraine is a divided country. This being said: Just recently a newspaper in Beijing had a comic showing the Ukraine as a car. Uncle Sam was shown trying to stir the stirring wheel. This gives you an idea. Trust me, the US has a strong strong interest of the Ukraine breaking away from US influence.

> the US has a strong strong interest of the Ukraine breaking away from US influence

Sure it does. However, don't you understand that all runner-up or would-be superpowers (China, Russia, etc) have a vested interest in portraying US influence as being the driving force behind anything bad happening anywhere?

> Just recently a newspaper in Beijing had a comic showing the Ukraine as a car. Uncle Sam was shown trying to stir the stirring wheel. This gives you an idea.

So that's where you get your news from? How about you learn some Ukrainian and find out what the actual situation is on the ground?

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#357

Post by random123455 »

[deleted] wrote: post #355
random123455 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Incorrect, the main goal is to prevent the current government mafia allied with government-connected industrial oligarchs in Donetsk region to become even less representative and even more Russian-controlled It is just a coincidence that that seems to align with the EU goals. Hatred and emotions have nothing to do with what is happening and noone is using anyone. >So far... >Again, incorrect, the protests are driven…

[deleted]

@bluekeybox

> Who it self is lead by a dictator like Putin. Unlike the benevolent EU.

You are trying to sound sarcastic. You are failing.

Reply You are telling me that Putin is not a dictator? Did you not listen to the free media? Where are you getting your news? EU and Europeans are benevolent, they are also tolerant unlike the gay hating Russians

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#358

Post by GFischer »

scribu wrote: post #308
snitko wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say I agree that regulation is a good thing. I agree that even though I myself may not care for my own safety and want to buy a purely assembled car, I should not be allowed to impose danger on other drivers on the road and this purely assembled car may as well present such danger. Now the central question here is not whether regulations are a good idea or not, but whether it's a good idea to allow those regula…

Road companies seem like a great example of a problematic scenario for anarcho-capitalism: A hypothetical company called Roads LLC owns a 20km strip of road that goes through a tunnel in a mountain. Due to the geography, all alternative routes require an extra 200km detour. Let's also say, for the sake of argument, that you can't just build another tunnel either, because the mountain would collapse. Since there are n…

I'm not an anarcho-capitalist but I'm sympathetic to their views :) and often discuss with friends who are .

Many flat out deny the existance of natural monopolies, for example:

http://mises.org/journals/rae/pdf/rae9_2_3.pdf

Others argue that the hypothetical company would face competition by other means of transportation.

Finally, others who are not anarchists, speak of a libertarian government that would curb such abuses.

The Wikipedia article acknowledges your point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-market_roads

"n many parts of the world land use patterns mean that building two or more highways in parallel isn't practicable. Kroeger claims, "This would result in an incredibly inefficient use of land resources."[citation needed] When there is only one highway connecting points A and B, the main advantage of privatization, competition, disappears. In absence of regulation a private highway operator is likely to charge an exorbitant monopoly price, resulting in huge profit margins and few benefits for drivers."

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#359

Post by zwdr »

adobriyan wrote: post #190
smsm42 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware of the fact that strict gun laws don't mean no guns? Your own link shows there are 3 million guns in Ukraine. If there's a need, some of them - probably hundreds of them - would find their way to the hostilities. But I'm not sure there is the will to escalate the situation this far. Because then the next step is using the army and heavy weaponry, and that means civil war and massive casualties. No one r…

> If there's a need, some of them - probably hundreds of them - would find their way to the hostilities. Everything will end very quickly if real guns pop up. To the disappointment of protesters.

The police already used shotguns, loaded with metal slugs for door breaching (!).
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