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One Man Has Written Virtually Every Major Pop Song Of The Last 20 Years.

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Re: One Man Has Written Virtually Every Major Pop Song Of The Last 20 Years.

#111
post #57
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there's a market for it & he's excelled at creating something that sells that. There's also a market for black tar heroin, nuclear missiles, drones, slaves, and so on. >Just because it's pop music doesn't mean you can't give the guy credit for understanding his market & dominating his field. Is pop music a good thing for the world? (It obviously isn't as bad as any of the things I listed above to avoid claims of hyp…

Should we think 90% of the stuff produced by HN readers on a daily basis (I mean the software we write, not our comments, hehe) are good things? Is Facebook a good thing? It just lets people stay in contact with one another, they could already do that with a phone, Facebook just makes it a little more pleasant. Is Snapchat a good thing? It, well, I don't even know what it does, but it takes pictures and lets you shar…

> Should we think 90% of the stuff produced by HN readers on a daily basis (I mean the software we write, not our comments, hehe) are good things?

In the world I want to live in, would 90% of the stuff produced by HN readers, software, comments, and everythign else be good things? Sure. So in that sense, yes, they should be. Are they? Definitely not.

Is Facebook good? It definitely meets a market need; but what's the social implication of confining discourse into the channels it does? What will the generation raised on the 'like' button be like? How has social media affected journalism -- would people use phones to share linkbait about 10 Things You'd Never Believe We Found in Justin Bieber's Trash?

Snapchat is definitely a good thing. It's single-purpose enough that it doesn't replace anything else, but it add something to the toolkit of how people can communicate. It also brought the concept of ephemerality back to digital communication, which I think is invaluable. You might disagree about that, but it's definitely significant in the way that Call Me Maybe isn't.

I disagree that the idea behind pop music is to make people happier. The idea behind pop music is to make money. Sometimes these values align, and other times they don't. I've never met someone deeply fulfilled on a personal or spiritual level from playing Candy Crush; I've never seen anyone moved to tears by an N*SYNC song.

Assuming that people who make pop music are trying to make people's lives a little more bearable, I definitely think they could do a lot better. This guy is probably incredibly musically gifted, and what is he doing? Writing crap that nobody will remember to make a few bucks, in exactly the same way the greatest minds of our generation are using fantastic computing power and computing over insane amounts of data, thinking faster and deeper than any human ever could, to get people to click ads.

I think he could do better. I wish we lived in a world where he could.

Re: One Man Has Written Virtually Every Major Pop Song Of The Last 20 Years.

#112
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Heroin and slaves are really, really bad. Pop music is just mildly bad. That's a comparison. The point I intended to make is that there are markets for everything. I don't even think pop music is that bad, but being successful in a marketplace is never cause alone for accolades. Blindly worshipping people who are successful at some business venture blinds us to the ethics of whatever they're doing. Success shou…

> Blindly worshipping people who are successful at some business venture blinds Completely agree, but I don't think anyone in the article or this forum could be considered "worshipping" this guy. The article was more of an observation about a not immediately apparent fact that was intellectually curious.

Not this man in particular, but in general I think people in this forum conflate "being successful in commercial enterprises" with "living a moral/fulfilling/best-possible life." As do plenty of people in society. (Definitely not all people in this forum, but certainly some, and certainly a plurality.)

Re: One Man Has Written Virtually Every Major Pop Song Of The Last 20 Years.

#113
post #55
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there's a market for it & he's excelled at creating something that sells that. There's also a market for black tar heroin, nuclear missiles, drones, slaves, and so on. >Just because it's pop music doesn't mean you can't give the guy credit for understanding his market & dominating his field. Is pop music a good thing for the world? (It obviously isn't as bad as any of the things I listed above to avoid claims of hyp…

> should we think people who make pop music are doing a good thing? ...and the tech industry is any better? We're mostly driven by advertising and consumer software/electronics. (Yes, exceptions exist, but they aren't the rule). Out of curiosity, what industry do you work in?

>...and the tech industry is any better?

I don't think I said that.

Re: One Man Has Written Virtually Every Major Pop Song Of The Last 20 Years.

#114
post #2

So it's only one guy who's been responsible for all this crap?

do you play music? do you have the ability to play his pieces? or to compose either at or above his level?

when I was learning piano in the late 90's, I bought classical sheet music for training, and pop sheet music to play for friends and family. at the top of most of the pop pieces said "max martin"

classical music taught a lot to me, but so did max's music. point being, inarticulate insults such as saying the music is crap, are not worthwhile criticisms.

Re: One Man Has Written Virtually Every Major Pop Song Of The Last 20 Years.

#115
post #113
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> should we think people who make pop music are doing a good thing? ...and the tech industry is any better? We're mostly driven by advertising and consumer software/electronics. (Yes, exceptions exist, but they aren't the rule). Out of curiosity, what industry do you work in?

>...and the tech industry is any better? I don't think I said that.

True. But usually when you judge others, the assumption is that you personally would pass the same judgement.

E.g. the speck in your brother's eye vs. the plank in your own.

I was admittedly assuming you work in the tech industry, just given that most HNers do.

Which, yeah, I was going to have to eat crow if you work in orphanages all day.

Re: One Man Has Written Virtually Every Major Pop Song Of The Last 20 Years.

#116
post #111
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we think 90% of the stuff produced by HN readers on a daily basis (I mean the software we write, not our comments, hehe) are good things? Is Facebook a good thing? It just lets people stay in contact with one another, they could already do that with a phone, Facebook just makes it a little more pleasant. Is Snapchat a good thing? It, well, I don't even know what it does, but it takes pictures and lets you shar…

> Should we think 90% of the stuff produced by HN readers on a daily basis (I mean the software we write, not our comments, hehe) are good things? In the world I want to live in, would 90% of the stuff produced by HN readers, software, comments, and everythign else be good things? Sure. So in that sense, yes, they should be. Are they? Definitely not. Is Facebook good? It definitely meets a market need; but what's the…

I agree with everything you said, and you said what you said far better than I said what I said, so my hat comes off to you (then goes back on or my ears will get cold, this is Montana).

I would point out that, in a capitalist system, nothing is produced to make people happy, everything is produced for profit (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/adamsmith136391.h...). And that is really what I was trying to get across, pop music may be crap, but it is what is profitable, to the extent that people want to buy it (presumably because it somehow makes them happy). People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, and a bunch of people building social networks and ad-targeting systems live in very fragile glass houses...

Re: One Man Has Written Virtually Every Major Pop Song Of The Last 20 Years.

#117
I have always been a fan of trashy pop (too busy still listening to "As Long as You Love Me" 10 years later to have any shame). I remember when I was 13 and used to read all the pocket leaflets from audio tapes I would buy. And reading the entirety of the fine print/credits for all my favourite songs after I'd memorized the lyrics (backwards too).

I remember coming across Max Martin and Denniz Pop prominently figuring in just about every single one of my favourite songs. I would be amazed to find a song I liked that didn't mention at least Max Martin. I was amused to find this consistent across BSB, NSync and Britney Spears (and I didn't like very many of her songs). I always thought to myself "This man, whoever he is, whatever he does, is a genius, because he seems to be the only real common factor across all my favourite trashy pop songs. Why isn't he the most important man in pop music?"

I got over my obsession over the backgrounds of pop musicians shortly. But I still find my favourite songs (within my understandably terrible taste according to those with a finer appreciation for the arts) to often be Max Martin produced.

He deserves a lot of respect and credit for not only dominating his field and picking the right talent to work with, but moreso for keeping up with the trends and times (or defining them?), entertaining teenagers and youngsters for multiple generations even as he grew older. That is definitely no easy feat, in music, movies, social media (hi Facebook) or any other industry.

As a game designer, I hope I can develop that talent to cater to the most important demographics in my industry even as I outgrow it.

Re: One Man Has Written Virtually Every Major Pop Song Of The Last 20 Years.

#118
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also I think it's important to note that just because its pop music doesn't mean it does not take an incredible amount of skill to produce well. There are a handful of producers that dominate the field because they are the best ones. Dr Luke is an example of another.

What I dislike about Dr Luke is that his artists are autotuned to the extent that they all sound exactly the same. Katy Perry's voice could be swapped for Avril Lavigne's and many people would barely notice. This accusation is not new in pop music, and I do like his work, but it seems no more skillful by now than finding the right formula and milking it to death with marketing machinery. It find it negative for creat…

I also dislike pop for much the same reason: it's completely fabricated to produce money and little else.

But I do recognize and appreciate how good this guy is, writing and producing a hit is not trivial and also follows a portfolio approach, the difference being that his portfolio has way more successes than average.

If it were that simple to produce pop hits, any producer would do it. Consider that most of the costs are promotion (like many startups) and that the record company could get just about anyone to produce Katy Perry, but Martin's track record is beyond just about any other producer, so I think there's little doubt about his skills.

"I kissed a girl" sung by Avril Lavigne wouldn't be the same thing; Perry's persona and style was perfect for it. These guys know this and that explains half of their success. The other half is deep pockets for promotion.

Re: One Man Has Written Virtually Every Major Pop Song Of The Last 20 Years.

#119
post #2

So it's only one guy who's been responsible for all this crap?

do you play music? do you have the ability to play his pieces? or to compose either at or above his level? when I was learning piano in the late 90's, I bought classical sheet music for training, and pop sheet music to play for friends and family. at the top of most of the pop pieces said "max martin" classical music taught a lot to me, but so did max's music. point being, inarticulate insults such as saying the musi…

Sure, I think the guy is extremely talented. No doubt about it whatsoever. He uses his talent, though, on a format that is much simple and the results aren't very long-lasting, I guess because of the simplicity/lack of depth. In 50 years, who will still listen to the classical pieces you were learning? And who will still listen to the pop pieces?
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