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South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

wired.co.uk

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Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#51

Post by DanBC »

mschuster91 wrote: post #4

One minor technical difference: you don't need to actually flash a new OS to your device to remove Android bloatware, "/system/app mover" will do the trick. Of course this does not help if the manufacturer replaced core stock Android software with their own (Samsung), but at least in the case of Samsung I can't really complain on their replacements.

My old phone had a bunch of branded stuff that could not be removed by app mover (unless that's something extra to the default app moving tool).

One example would be the "Orange Wednesday" cinema ticket software. I wasn't an Orange customer, I have alternative cinema ticket arrangements, etc. Just having to have that software on the phone was annoying.

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#53

Post by pcurve »

RivieraKid wrote: post #41
pcurve wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your thinking, though I think we'd still have bloatware on phones even if there were more competition among wireless carriers. PC market is quite competitive, yet most computers come with bloatware. The difference is, they can be uninstalled, but I suspect that may be due to OEM licensing agreement with Microsoft, than the competition among PC makers. But at least with PCs, some of the revenue gained fro…

I think that if the market was fully competetive, everyone was fully informed and both customers and companies made optimal decisions, then most phone wouldn't have bloatware. Otherwise, it would mean that phones with bloatware are actually better than (perhaps slightly more expensive) clean phones. But I just don't think this is the case, bloatware simple doesn't have much real value.

Even in extremely competitive market, there's room for bloatware if many customers don't mind it in exchange for lower pricing. However, what a competitive market WILL ensure is discovery of an 'acceptable level & implementation' of bloatware that 'some' customers will tolerate given the choice of lower pricing vs no bloatware.

Think two versions of Amazon Kindle with and without ads. There's market for both. The problem with carriers is that their monopolistic positions enable them to engage in abusive practices. (like installing bloatware to the point of annoyance, prevent user-removal, and not passing on savings)

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#54

Post by ENGNR »

w1ntermute wrote: post #34
twiceaday wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that, regardless of how you get your iPhone, an iPhone will not have bloatware pre-installed. Same thing for Macs.

And regardless of how you get your iPhone, you are stuck with Safari as your default browser. I would rather buy a phone that has bloatware (that can be disabled) than buy a phone on which I am not free to change the default applications. That said, you can have the best of both worlds by buying a Nexus device.

That's what I thought, but there are actually a bunch of Google apps that can't be uninstalled too.

My old Galaxy Nexus became unusable as Google services got more aggressive (eating all the RAM if background service calls failed due to poor connection). The phone would literally restart in the middle of every third phone call, but the option to uninstall the main culprits like Google Currents was (is?) disabled. Sure I can install cyanogen, but I specifically bought the nexus to save having to do that.

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#55

Post by scott_karana »

Geee wrote: post #42
RivieraKid wrote: post #33

I'm surprised that so many people believe in the free market ideology (e.g. market regulation is always wrong). The error in this type of reasoning is very simple. They first assume an idealized market model and then derive conclusions from it – but the idealized market is just too different from real-world markets. It's really that simple but many really smart people fall for it.

Perfect markets need perfect information and rational players. This doesn't happen in the real world. People buy shiny bloated things and complain later. And then buy the next shiny bloated thing. Also, in technology, product features move forward much faster than there's time to markets to 'find equilibrium'. So, I guess when smartphones stop advancing in features, people will find more value in those phones that do…

The choice is often between a dull, bloating thing, and a shiny bloated thing, sadly.

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#56

Post by vinkelhake »

acdha wrote: post #39
vinkelhake wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Road to hell, good intentions etc... Does it need to be a regulation? Silly regulations is what made South Korea entirely dependent on Internet Explorer.

You're engaging in the Libertarian vice with the simplistic assumption that all regulations are created equal: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2006/08/the... South Korea chose to mandate a technology rather than the desired outcome and never to update that law. They could alternatively have mandated multi-factor authentication or even simply made banks liable for any fraudulent transaction without an…

No, I don't think all regulations are created equal, but thanks for playing.

I have no problem with regulations in general. From the start here I said "silly regulations". Trying to combat bloatware by simply banning them is, in my opinion, silly. Even if you establish that this problem is so big that the government needs to get involved, there are other tools at their disposal. Tax incentives is one such tool.

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#57

Post by hocuspocus »

tn13 wrote: post #12

This unwarranted government intervention is not good though I hate the bloatware. Everytime I visit my parents I end up spending half an hour removing browser toolbars, make your PC fast software. So I bought them a brand new Lenovo laptop just to find that there were 22 different kind of bloatware from DNS related stuff to browser toolbars to some weird webcam and what not software. No matter how much I hate them, t…

I'd have a lot to say about the Korean government's interventionism, but I believe they're right for once.

Firstly, they aren't banning carriers from shipping phones with preloaded crapware, they're forcing them to make it uninstallable, as every non-system app should be.

Secondly, you obviously have no idea of the state of the market in Korea. Carrier subsidies are still the norm, your typical Samsung smartphone ends up costing 50% more than in open markets like Europe. Moreover, consumers don't have a lot of options. HTC, Motorola and Sony pulled out. You cannot find non-carrier versions of the Korean phones. Windows phones aren't sold either. Basically you're down to overpriced iPhones or the Nexus 5 (which was the first Nexus to be released in Korea without some ridiculous delay compared to other parts of the world).

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#58

Post by JetSpiegel »

pcurve wrote: post #38
RivieraKid wrote: post #33

I'm surprised that so many people believe in the free market ideology (e.g. market regulation is always wrong). The error in this type of reasoning is very simple. They first assume an idealized market model and then derive conclusions from it – but the idealized market is just too different from real-world markets. It's really that simple but many really smart people fall for it.

I agree with your thinking, though I think we'd still have bloatware on phones even if there were more competition among wireless carriers. PC market is quite competitive, yet most computers come with bloatware. The difference is, they can be uninstalled, but I suspect that may be due to OEM licensing agreement with Microsoft, than the competition among PC makers. But at least with PCs, some of the revenue gained fro…

The main difference it that I can install a fresh copy of Windows or Linux on my PC and it works, while there is no such thing as "stock Android". It depends on the hardware, so the OEM have all the power.

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#59

Post by thkim »

tn13 wrote: post #12

This unwarranted government intervention is not good though I hate the bloatware. Everytime I visit my parents I end up spending half an hour removing browser toolbars, make your PC fast software. So I bought them a brand new Lenovo laptop just to find that there were 22 different kind of bloatware from DNS related stuff to browser toolbars to some weird webcam and what not software. No matter how much I hate them, t…

This law is about giving a choice to the consumer. It doesn't prevent carriers or manufacturers from pre-installing apps. All it says is make the app deletable. Would you also say all the other opt-outs as "unwarranted government intervention"?

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#60

Post by kijin »

pippy wrote: post #45

Will this apply to exported phones as well? I would assume that Samsung phones are produced in China and exported globally, not even touching South Korean shores.

Most definitely not.

Some of the bloatware comes directly from Samsung, but a lot of the rest needs to be customized for each carrier. Samsung probably uses a separate disk image for each carrier, so it would be trivial to add the "bloatware removal" feature only to disk images made for some carriers and not others.

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