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South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

wired.co.uk

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Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#41

Post by RivieraKid »

pcurve wrote: post #38
RivieraKid wrote: post #33

I'm surprised that so many people believe in the free market ideology (e.g. market regulation is always wrong). The error in this type of reasoning is very simple. They first assume an idealized market model and then derive conclusions from it – but the idealized market is just too different from real-world markets. It's really that simple but many really smart people fall for it.

I agree with your thinking, though I think we'd still have bloatware on phones even if there were more competition among wireless carriers. PC market is quite competitive, yet most computers come with bloatware. The difference is, they can be uninstalled, but I suspect that may be due to OEM licensing agreement with Microsoft, than the competition among PC makers. But at least with PCs, some of the revenue gained fro…

I think that if the market was fully competetive, everyone was fully informed and both customers and companies made optimal decisions, then most phone wouldn't have bloatware. Otherwise, it would mean that phones with bloatware are actually better than (perhaps slightly more expensive) clean phones. But I just don't think this is the case, bloatware simple doesn't have much real value.

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#42

Post by Geee »

RivieraKid wrote: post #33

I'm surprised that so many people believe in the free market ideology (e.g. market regulation is always wrong). The error in this type of reasoning is very simple. They first assume an idealized market model and then derive conclusions from it – but the idealized market is just too different from real-world markets. It's really that simple but many really smart people fall for it.

Perfect markets need perfect information and rational players. This doesn't happen in the real world. People buy shiny bloated things and complain later. And then buy the next shiny bloated thing.

Also, in technology, product features move forward much faster than there's time to markets to 'find equilibrium'. So, I guess when smartphones stop advancing in features, people will find more value in those phones that don't have bloatware.

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#43

Post by rtpg »

joosters wrote: post #13
tn13 wrote: post #12

This unwarranted government intervention is not good though I hate the bloatware. Everytime I visit my parents I end up spending half an hour removing browser toolbars, make your PC fast software. So I bought them a brand new Lenovo laptop just to find that there were 22 different kind of bloatware from DNS related stuff to browser toolbars to some weird webcam and what not software. No matter how much I hate them, t…

How much money do you reckon they saved on the laptop? How much is your time worth?

this is an unsourced data point, but I remember reading (on multiple ocasions) that OEM installs can cost something from 10 cents to a dollar. So even at the high end, you're maybe saving 10 to 15 dollars...

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#46

Post by scholia »

tomkin wrote: post #32
tn13 wrote: post #12

This unwarranted government intervention is not good though I hate the bloatware. Everytime I visit my parents I end up spending half an hour removing browser toolbars, make your PC fast software. So I bought them a brand new Lenovo laptop just to find that there were 22 different kind of bloatware from DNS related stuff to browser toolbars to some weird webcam and what not software. No matter how much I hate them, t…

This is OK, so long as the social consensus is aware of this fact. When average people hear "This comes with Windows 8", there is an inherit understanding as to what that means, and I don't think the bloatware is assumed, or that the average consumer is even aware that it is bloatware, and not part of the experience marketed to them. I'm not sure how you would introduce bloatware to the average consumer, but right no…

There's stuff that Microsoft ships as part of Windows 8, when it ships to OEMs. You could take the view that all of it's wanted, even though it includes things like Bing apps. (Historically, the US government tried to stop Microsoft including IE, and the EU tried to stop it including Windows Media Player.)

Then there's the stuff that OEMs ship on real PCs. Microsoft doesn't know what they ship, but it usually includes PUPs or Potentially Unwanted Programs. Some of these are added by the manufacturer (particularly HP and Lenovo) and some of them are added because of paid distribution deals. They may be "trialware" such as anti-virus software from which the OEM makes a recurring income.

So there are three types of non-essential program, and I don't see how most consumers can possibly tell them apart.

This situation did involve some US government intervention.

The US DoJ anti-trust case against Microsoft enshrined the OEMs' right to ship what they liked, and prevented Microsoft from charging the top 10 OEMs different prices. That stopped Microsoft from, for example, offering deals to OEMs who would install Windows free of crapware or with optimized performance.

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#47

Post by robocat »

vsviridov wrote: post #35
mschuster91 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rooting and flashing another firmware is an entirely different process! Rooting usually involves setting a configuration flag, maybe hacking the bootloader, which is for most devices a point and click op. Flashing a firmware is "real" hacking compared to rooting!

Well, the average user does not know how to do neither, and removing system applications (all bloatware is set as system application) is impossible unless the phone is rooted. What is the average joe to do to get rid of all the crap that inhibits performance and drains the battery at double the speed to boot?

Most crapware can be disabled. Not a great UX, but at least you can do something about it without rooting or flashing.

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#49

Post by georgemcbay »

RivieraKid wrote: post #29
tn13 wrote: post #12

This unwarranted government intervention is not good though I hate the bloatware. Everytime I visit my parents I end up spending half an hour removing browser toolbars, make your PC fast software. So I bought them a brand new Lenovo laptop just to find that there were 22 different kind of bloatware from DNS related stuff to browser toolbars to some weird webcam and what not software. No matter how much I hate them, t…

Under perfect market assumption, governement intervation may be wrong. But the laptop market is very different from the theoretical perfect market model. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_market

And the cellphone market is worse yet, much, much worse. At least here in the US, I can't speak for how it works in South Korea.

A regulation like this in the US would just be a bandaid (one I'd welcome) on the much, much larger problem of spectrum use/abuse resulting in few enough players to allow massive price fixing and few real consumer options.

There isn't a violin in the world small enough for me to play when the government issues regulations to protect consumers against the horrible actions of cellphone carriers (and by extension the cellphone vendors that serve them), ISPs, cable companies, etc. They are all fucking horrible and lobby incessantly for government protection when it benefits their lockin and then cry like some little bitch koalas[1] who fell out of a tree when the shoe is on the other foot.

[1] http://www.textfiles.com/uploads/koalas.txt

Re: South Korea bans unremovable mobile bloatware

#50

Post by DanBC »

twiceaday wrote: post #26
hhsnopek wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's if you get it though Verizon, its better to (byod), not buy on contract...

I think the point is that, regardless of how you get your iPhone, an iPhone will not have bloatware pre-installed. Same thing for Macs.

There is plenty of stuff installed on iPhone that people might not want. I can't change the keyboard; I can use a different mail app but not for sending attachments; I don't use safari; etc.

These are all far far nicer that the junk installed by vendors (Orange in the UK is pretty bad). But it's still unwanted software that introduce frustrations for some users.

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