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Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

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Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#41

Post by busterarm »

mikeash wrote: post #37
tptacek wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand. Richard's point doesn't depend on an Amazon bug that transposes tracking codes. But your point does depend on the NSA redirecting packages to Alexandria in such a way that anyone who checked their order status would notice.

And why Alexandria? Part of this discussion seems based on a lack of understanding of the geography of the DC area. Alexandria is near these agencies, omg! But the fact is that there isn't much government in Alexandria. USPTO is there, and otherwise it's charming old houses, quirky shops, crappy strip malls, cookie-cutter suburbia, smallish high-rise apartments, railroad facilities, light industry, and other such sim…

The NSA does rely heavily on outside contractors though.

Maybe this page is of interest?

https://www.ida.org/aboutus/organization/hpcc.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Defense_Analyses

Spy the address down at the bottom.

And if you wanna get really crazy or are just interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_University_protests_of...

Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#42

Post by Varcht »

busterarm wrote: post #18
rwg wrote: post #9

HEY, KIDS! Do YOU know what time it is?! [wild audience applause] THAT'S RIGHT, it's time for WHICH IS MORE LIKELY? ! [intro music] Today on Which is More Likely? , we're looking at a replacement Lenovo Thinkpad keyboard that was shipped to Alexandria, Virginia, instead of Seattle, Washington. What a blunder! [slide whistle sound effect] Now put your thinking caps on and ponder, WHICH IS MORE LIKELY? ! • The largest…

Maybe this is Amazon/USPS's shipping version of the warrant canary? If Apple does it... Imagine that we're not in the US for a second and that this were a journalist? Would your opinion of what happened change? It would have to be a mis-delivery at least instead of a "wrong tracking number". How likely is it that Amazon would ship something from a CA warehouse and it take more than 2 days to get to Seattle? Also keep…

This is the first alternate scenario that ran through my head while playing "Which is more likely".

Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#43

Post by mikeash »

busterarm wrote: post #41
mikeash wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why Alexandria? Part of this discussion seems based on a lack of understanding of the geography of the DC area. Alexandria is near these agencies, omg! But the fact is that there isn't much government in Alexandria. USPTO is there, and otherwise it's charming old houses, quirky shops, crappy strip malls, cookie-cutter suburbia, smallish high-rise apartments, railroad facilities, light industry, and other such sim…

The NSA does rely heavily on outside contractors though. Maybe this page is of interest? https://www.ida.org/aboutus/organization/hpcc.php http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Defense_Analyses Spy the address down at the bottom. And if you wanna get really crazy or are just interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_University_protests_of...

I don't get it. Why is an administrative non-profit at all interesting here?

Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#44

Post by dchichkov »

tptacek wrote: post #31
icambron wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I like this game. Let's play again: WHICH IS MORE LIKELY?! * The world's largest online retailer that does $54M in sales per day has a bug in its procurement system that randomly transposes tracking codes. ORRRRRRRR! * The intelligence agency whose massive scope and pervasive operational shortcomings were recently exposed by one low-level operative had a slip-up in applying a well-publicized tactic to an obviousl…

I don't understand. Richard's point doesn't depend on an Amazon bug that transposes tracking codes. But your point does depend on the NSA redirecting packages to Alexandria in such a way that anyone who checked their order status would notice.

Why do you think NSA cares much about hiding their activities from you?

I can tell you a story. Some years ago, back in Russia, as a [naive] kid, I've developed a surveillance system for Telrad telecom exchange [ultimately for FSB]. Do you think anyone cared to do that project in secrecy? I can give you the answer. Nope.

As far as I understand NSA can legally intercept packages and can legally install undetectable surveillance devices. As long as they are not using collected surveillance data, legally they are fine and they do not absolutely have to hide their activities at all costs. Hiding large scale operation is difficult and plugging every information leak is expensive. So they are not necessarily prioritizing that. So, yes, there is a change that we simply see their activity. And yes, it could be just an Amazon bug.

Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#45

Post by [deleted] »

rwg wrote: post #9

HEY, KIDS! Do YOU know what time it is?! [wild audience applause] THAT'S RIGHT, it's time for WHICH IS MORE LIKELY? ! [intro music] Today on Which is More Likely? , we're looking at a replacement Lenovo Thinkpad keyboard that was shipped to Alexandria, Virginia, instead of Seattle, Washington. What a blunder! [slide whistle sound effect] Now put your thinking caps on and ponder, WHICH IS MORE LIKELY? ! • The largest…

[deleted]

Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#46

Post by dijit »

tptacek wrote: post #27
mverwijs wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad sad thing is, though, that in the '90s we made these jokes about surveillance cameras, internet taps, government-written-viruses, etc..etc... Seemed funny then, too.

No we did not. This is perhaps the most annoying meme to have come out of the Wikileaks and Snowden disclosures. Nobody working in technology laughed about dragnet surveillance or cryptanalysis capabilities or trojan horses. The 1990s was the era of Clipper and Echelon. People did not assume in the 1990s that the intelligence community was benign or disconnected. All you have to do is read _Applied Cryptography_ to s…

Seem to remember it being popular in Hollywood.

Enemy of the State, The Simpsons.. even AAA movies like Swordfish.. "The Carnivore program, reading every ISP subscribers email- I did what every federal judge wouldn't do"

Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#47

Post by busterarm »

mikeash wrote: post #43
busterarm wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA does rely heavily on outside contractors though. Maybe this page is of interest? https://www.ida.org/aboutus/organization/hpcc.php http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Defense_Analyses Spy the address down at the bottom. And if you wanna get really crazy or are just interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_University_protests_of...

I don't get it. Why is an administrative non-profit at all interesting here?

Did you actually read the three paragraphs on the first linked page?

Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#48

Post by tptacek »

dijit wrote: post #46
tptacek wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No we did not. This is perhaps the most annoying meme to have come out of the Wikileaks and Snowden disclosures. Nobody working in technology laughed about dragnet surveillance or cryptanalysis capabilities or trojan horses. The 1990s was the era of Clipper and Echelon. People did not assume in the 1990s that the intelligence community was benign or disconnected. All you have to do is read _Applied Cryptography_ to s…

Seem to remember it being popular in Hollywood. Enemy of the State, The Simpsons.. even AAA movies like Swordfish.. "The Carnivore program, reading every ISP subscribers email- I did what every federal judge wouldn't do"

And of course, Enemy of the State is a sort of sequel to The Conversation, a (great) movie from the '70s.

Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#49

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

rwg wrote: post #9

HEY, KIDS! Do YOU know what time it is?! [wild audience applause] THAT'S RIGHT, it's time for WHICH IS MORE LIKELY? ! [intro music] Today on Which is More Likely? , we're looking at a replacement Lenovo Thinkpad keyboard that was shipped to Alexandria, Virginia, instead of Seattle, Washington. What a blunder! [slide whistle sound effect] Now put your thinking caps on and ponder, WHICH IS MORE LIKELY? ! • The largest…

Uninformed speculation on which option is more likely cannot rule something out entirely.

Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#50

Post by GigabyteCoin »

fwiw I recently had a large, professional shipment company state that my product had been delivered to the new town over, albeit to the same street address I had ordered it to.

The product was in my po box, but the shipping company claimed it wad delivered to another adjacent town.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

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