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Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

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Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#21

Post by chmars »

mikeash wrote: post #11

The obvious explanation here is that the USPS fucked up. As the tweet says, you'd think the NSA program would be more subtle. Further, there isn't much in the way of intelligence presence in Alexandria. So what's more likely: that the NSA does this program in a secret location that's still right next to all the non-secret stuff, and they can't cover up the tracking data, or that the USPS accidentally sent a package t…

Mishaps happen. Intelligence agencies in particular have a long history of mishaps (and incompetence), probably due to the lack of oversight …

Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#22

Post by mindslight »

rwg wrote: post #9

HEY, KIDS! Do YOU know what time it is?! [wild audience applause] THAT'S RIGHT, it's time for WHICH IS MORE LIKELY? ! [intro music] Today on Which is More Likely? , we're looking at a replacement Lenovo Thinkpad keyboard that was shipped to Alexandria, Virginia, instead of Seattle, Washington. What a blunder! [slide whistle sound effect] Now put your thinking caps on and ponder, WHICH IS MORE LIKELY? ! • The largest…

> The third-party seller who uses Amazon to accept orders screwed up and gave Amazon the wrong tracking number.

This should be easy to find out. Check if the tracking number on the website differs from what's printed on the package itself, and if so what the tracking for it looks like.

Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#23

Post by ghughes »

slashdotaccount wrote: post #14
ghughes wrote: post #5

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by opaque logistics.

Never say never. NSA intercepting its target's purchases to install spyware is very much possible.

It's possible, but there is no evidence suggesting that is what happened here.

The overwhelming likelihood is that the package simply took an unusual route due to factors that are unknown to us. For this story to be true, it would require a level of incompetence that is orders of magnitude beyond that which we have previously seen from the NSA.

Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#24

Post by busterarm »

ghughes wrote: post #17
ljd wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But when that keyboard gets plugged into the motherboard of the laptop, it'll have an opportunity to install malware in the form of device drivers.

I don't believe HIDs have the ability to install arbitrary drivers. Windows will try to identify the device and locate the driver via Windows Update, or use a generic HID driver. Or the OEM may have preinstalled drivers. In any case, a malicious keyboard can simulate keypresses and pwn your machine that way. No evil driver needed.

If a laptops FN keys work in BIOS/UEFI, does it even matter?

See other post about embedded firmware and DMA.

Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#26

Post by icambron »

rwg wrote: post #9

HEY, KIDS! Do YOU know what time it is?! [wild audience applause] THAT'S RIGHT, it's time for WHICH IS MORE LIKELY? ! [intro music] Today on Which is More Likely? , we're looking at a replacement Lenovo Thinkpad keyboard that was shipped to Alexandria, Virginia, instead of Seattle, Washington. What a blunder! [slide whistle sound effect] Now put your thinking caps on and ponder, WHICH IS MORE LIKELY? ! • The largest…

Oh, I like this game. Let's play again: WHICH IS MORE LIKELY?!

* The world's largest online retailer that does $54M in sales per day has a bug in its procurement system that randomly transposes tracking codes.

ORRRRRRRR!

* The intelligence agency whose massive scope and pervasive operational shortcomings were recently exposed by one low-level operative had a slip-up in applying a well-publicized tactic to an obviously high value target.

On the other hand, what's great about your way of putting it is that it juxtaposes your belief in the all encompassing nature of the NSA's programs with your incredulity that such a program might have been applied specifically here. I also like the part where the NSA is guarded by the Catch-22 "it wasn't them, because if it was, you'd never know", such that that there's no scenario in which you could be convinced that the NSA did anything.

And yet again, maybe it's time to stop thinking of the NSA as some far-off abstraction and start thinking about it is an actual thing that affects our daily lives.

Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#27

Post by tptacek »

mverwijs wrote: post #13
rwg wrote: post #9

HEY, KIDS! Do YOU know what time it is?! [wild audience applause] THAT'S RIGHT, it's time for WHICH IS MORE LIKELY? ! [intro music] Today on Which is More Likely? , we're looking at a replacement Lenovo Thinkpad keyboard that was shipped to Alexandria, Virginia, instead of Seattle, Washington. What a blunder! [slide whistle sound effect] Now put your thinking caps on and ponder, WHICH IS MORE LIKELY? ! • The largest…

The sad sad thing is, though, that in the '90s we made these jokes about surveillance cameras, internet taps, government-written-viruses, etc..etc... Seemed funny then, too.

No we did not. This is perhaps the most annoying meme to have come out of the Wikileaks and Snowden disclosures. Nobody working in technology laughed about dragnet surveillance or cryptanalysis capabilities or trojan horses. The 1990s was the era of Clipper and Echelon. People did not assume in the 1990s that the intelligence community was benign or disconnected. All you have to do is read _Applied Cryptography_ to see a sober, expansive concern about NSA surveillance. And Schneier's writing was far more carefully considered than, say, Usenet.

For fuck's sake, the most popular show on television centered on government conspiracies.

The millenials did not invent distrust of the government.

Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#29

Post by mikeash »

chmars wrote: post #21
mikeash wrote: post #11

The obvious explanation here is that the USPS fucked up. As the tweet says, you'd think the NSA program would be more subtle. Further, there isn't much in the way of intelligence presence in Alexandria. So what's more likely: that the NSA does this program in a secret location that's still right next to all the non-secret stuff, and they can't cover up the tracking data, or that the USPS accidentally sent a package t…

Mishaps happen. Intelligence agencies in particular have a long history of mishaps (and incompetence), probably due to the lack of oversight …

Of course, and I'm not saying they don't. I'm just saying, which is more likely? I'd wager the USPS screws up a lot more often that the NSA.

Re: Did this Tor developer become a victim of NSA's laptop interception program?

#30

Post by busterarm »

mverwijs wrote: post #13
rwg wrote: post #9

HEY, KIDS! Do YOU know what time it is?! [wild audience applause] THAT'S RIGHT, it's time for WHICH IS MORE LIKELY? ! [intro music] Today on Which is More Likely? , we're looking at a replacement Lenovo Thinkpad keyboard that was shipped to Alexandria, Virginia, instead of Seattle, Washington. What a blunder! [slide whistle sound effect] Now put your thinking caps on and ponder, WHICH IS MORE LIKELY? ! • The largest…

The sad sad thing is, though, that in the '90s we made these jokes about surveillance cameras, internet taps, government-written-viruses, etc..etc... Seemed funny then, too.

Maybe it makes me a looney but I was educated about things like COINTELPRO and TEMPEST before I was a teenager and the idea that a government wouldn't be doing these things is more surprising to me than the leaks that they are.
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