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Revolution in Kiev

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Re: Revolution in Kiev

#301

Post by PaulAJ »

Someone wrote: post #227
raphman wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locking manhole covers (or welding them shut) prevents assassins from easily placing bombs under them, and makes it harder for people to enter the sewers. Also, manhole covers may be used as weapons or shields.

Aha! That bombs thing does make sense. It wouldn't be that hard to enter the sewers outside that 'government sector', and place a bomb under a manhole cover welded shut, but I guess would-be terrorists would not want to carry a few hundred pounds or so of explosives through the sewers.

See http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AbsurdlySpaciousS... for more on this.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#302

Post by IgorPartola »

austerity wrote: post #269
IgorPartola wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because he won does not mean that he has the license to abuse his people and steal from them. That is a flawed argument. He also should not have been eligible to run in the first place. Apply it to your country, imagine if it's current leader told you that you could not oppose the government in any meaningful way, have him/her profiteer off his/her position, then tell me if you feel apathy. Anecdotes like yours…

I think you misunderstood me. My argument was simply that there are many people who support Yanukovich and unsurprisingly feel disdain towards those trying to overthrow the president they've elected.

Thanks for clarifying. I understand people in his core regions and pro Russia Russians supporting him. I cannot understand the fairly progressive and very intelligent community here on HN supporting this wanna-be dictator.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#303

Post by ajuc »

snitko wrote: post #294
ajuc wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever heard the term "natural monopoly"? It can form because of network effects, big upfront costs, market entry barriers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly

And to that I should respond with an article called "The Myth of Natural Monopoly" http://mises.org/daily/5266

And to that I'll respond by asking how many Amazons there are? If it isn't monopoly it's pretty close.

How about Google? Is there any real competition to ad words? Or google search? Does anybody use Bing without being forced? Duck Duck Go is nice, but it has worse results and will have worse results forever.

How about companies making desktop CPUs? Oligopoly isn't monopoly per se, but it's so close it doesn't matter. Nobody enforced that, it arised by itself.

Guess what - making processors in ever smaller process has huge upfront costs and small costs per unit. But that's just economic myth, right?

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#304

Post by SkyMarshal »

rosser wrote: post #4

I feel like this kind of thing (the various Arab Spring uprisings, the Ukrainian revolution, &c ) is very well served by the cacophony of amateur/citizen journalism that flows out of an individual event. Sure, at the time, it's incredibly noisy, because there's so much primary source material being created, with such incredible depth and nuance. Once people start to be able to assemble a comprehensive understanding o…

Agreed. The first-hand accounts of people who are there, writing/streaming what they're witnessing as they witness it, with little time taken for editorializing and narrative-making, is some of the most honest source material possible.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#305

Post by gritzko »

thesz wrote: post #298
gritzko wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian mail struggles with that jump for 20 years at least. I am 34.

I had no problems sending and receiving mail packages 10 years ago. I am 42, BTW.

1 I dislike very much the fact of being dragged into a discussion of this kind. Problems of Russian Mail are universally known.

2 Circa 2004 two my parcels arrived to different post offices late and cut open. There was no valuables inside (I wasn't that naive.) Ever since I used express services (DHL, TNT, PE)

3 I heard similar stories from other people (late&open)

4 Recently I received two packages by Russian Mail. They arrived late (1 month travel time) but were not open. An improvement.

5 Still I (we) use tracking to pick a parcel as local offices don't notify receivers. They let a package bounce silently. Forewarned is forearmed.

6 Lady at the post office was very kind.

7 Before receiving my parcels I was studying a vk.com official community for computeruniverse.ru clients, which is full of horror stories and detailed official 20-step instructions on how not to get screwed.

8 The same applies to letters, unfortunately. A local letter may travel for a month (even town hall officials complain about that).

9 A letter I sent from San Francisco arrived to Yekaterinburg in about three months. Just before I arrived myself.

10 YMMV. Russia is a great country. Cheers.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#306

Post by thesz »

IgorPartola wrote: post #131
thesz wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those commenters have very justified disdain. They want Ukraine to join European union. and the fate of Ukraine will be pretty grim in that case. My (not only mine's, actually) conclusion is based on experience of former Baltic USSR republics and former states from the Socialist block, including Bulgaria, Slovakia, etc. Never mind that burning car tires means producing benzopirenes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzo…

Oh man. I cannot see how what you are saying makes sense. First, joining the EU and trading with the EU are different things. We are talking about a very low level of commitment here for what originally started these riots. Please tell us how reducing corruption and creating a trade agreement with the EU a bad thing for Ukraine? Second, what does burning tires have to do with anything about this political situation?…

About your first point - I don't know.

I have something to say about your second point, though. Protesters are dumb ruining the city by burning the tires, regardless of the political situation. I am not living in Kiev, I planned a visit to it soon, I don't anymore. I don't know what to do. I am just saying that burning tires and cars is bad and stupid. Protesters have earned disdain at least from me by doing that.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#307

Post by thesz »

jedmeyers wrote: post #288
IgorPartola wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man. I cannot see how what you are saying makes sense. First, joining the EU and trading with the EU are different things. We are talking about a very low level of commitment here for what originally started these riots. Please tell us how reducing corruption and creating a trade agreement with the EU a bad thing for Ukraine? Second, what does burning tires have to do with anything about this political situation?…

The are not just trolling for Russia. LJ is really popular online platform for Putin's prpaganda, and a lot of people are getting paid for pro-Putin politic comments. Usually after third page the amount of such comments falls down considerably, probably they are being paid for with a lower rate.

I think you overestimate the power of Putin.

I think that keeping the protest going is stupid thing in itself. Many think the same and this is what is going on.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#308

Post by scribu »

snitko wrote: post #297
bananacurve wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't see people suggesting we all vote for one specific kind of car we are all going to drive for the next 4 years. There are huge regulatory hurdles to releasing an automobile, for good reason. Insisting on absolutely no government sounds dogmatic. Surely we can have enough government to negotiate a truce between warring police tribes.

Let's say I agree that regulation is a good thing. I agree that even though I myself may not care for my own safety and want to buy a purely assembled car, I should not be allowed to impose danger on other drivers on the road and this purely assembled car may as well present such danger. Now the central question here is not whether regulations are a good idea or not, but whether it's a good idea to allow those regula…

Road companies seem like a great example of a problematic scenario for anarcho-capitalism:

A hypothetical company called Roads LLC owns a 20km strip of road that goes through a tunnel in a mountain. Due to the geography, all alternative routes require an extra 200km detour. Let's also say, for the sake of argument, that you can't just build another tunnel either, because the mountain would collapse.

Since there are no direct competitors, the company is well-aware of the leverage it has, so it constantly keeps the toll price well above what the maintenance costs are, making huge margins.

So, I assume that your position is that this situation (quite inefficient from the customer's perspective) is better overall than having a government that manages that road, due to all of the other evils you perceive it brings. Even if there was a legitimate mechanism (the democratic process) for changing a particular inefficient government.

I guess my response is that governments seem like they could be efficient in theory, although most are grossly inefficient in practice. In contrast, anarcho-capitalism seems inefficient even in theory.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#309

Post by mjmahone17 »

nikolak wrote: post #234
us0r wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvlFhr-TPZw Keep throwing that molotov!

Yeah, that definitely justifies setting someone on fire. The protesters are just this peaceful bunch of people who would never do something like that, hurt other people who are just standing there... /s http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=959_1390672028 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuO53xeZkm8

Did you watch the first video until the end? They forcefully take the police shields, then, when the police are left standing defenseless, and actually surrender, they tell them to go through, and let them walk out of the building. There's no beating taking place, besides that required to break the police's stand. Even the guy with the fire hose is clearly going for the shield, not actively trying to injure the officer.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#310

Post by snitko »

ajuc wrote: post #303
snitko wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to that I should respond with an article called "The Myth of Natural Monopoly" http://mises.org/daily/5266

And to that I'll respond by asking how many Amazons there are? If it isn't monopoly it's pretty close. How about Google? Is there any real competition to ad words? Or google search? Does anybody use Bing without being forced? Duck Duck Go is nice, but it has worse results and will have worse results forever. How about companies making desktop CPUs? Oligopoly isn't monopoly per se, but it's so close it doesn't matter.…

First of all, Google's been around for slightly more than a decade. I can totally see it losing its monopoly over time (same for Amazon). Also, are Google and Amazon doing a bad job? Are customers (e.g. those who place ads or buy books) unhappy? If a monopoly delivers I have no problem with it. Furthermore, Google doesn't prevent other players from entering the market, it doesn't lobby the government to regulate search and require all companies to acquire a search licence if they wish to get into this business. This is why you see businesses like DuckDuckGo taking their chance.

What I really insist on is that if a monopoly is doing a bad job and if there is no government to protect it, it will inevitably be challenged. How long did it take for Google to challenge Apple's iPhone? Not long. And they really had a huge advantage and were actually doing a pretty good job.

The only true monopoly is a government because even if you wanted to ever challenge it, you'd lose your money, freedom and possibly life. Governments have no respect for people at all because people are not their customers. They know that people have no choice but to pay.

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