How Long Have I Got Left? • Hacker News Board

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#151

Post by sdegutis » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 6:17 PM UTC

nbouscal wrote: post #148

sdegutis wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it could be explained in a HN comment, I think there would be many more Christians in the world. That's why there are whole books written on the subject. The only one I still own is The Handbook of Christian Apologetics[1][2] so that's the only one I can recommend. But it does require some faith, just not blind or unreasoning faith, as most people seem to think. [1]: http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Christian-Apolog…

There's no other kind of faith. Faith literally means "belief without evidence."

That's not my definition of faith. But let's not get hung up on semantics and disagreements about definitions.

The point I was making is that there is a good deal of evidence, but it also requires a little belief in something that you can't absolutely prove.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#152

Post by belluchan » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 6:25 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #147

belluchan wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to claims that attempt to discount an insurmountable mountain of physical evidence you yourself can verify, there is no such thing as reliable eyewitness accounts, especially not from people who died eons ago. It's obvious you are not applying sound reasoning. Would you say it's sound reasoning to convict a man cleared by DNA tests for murder when there are witness accounts from living people? Think abo…

The book I mentioned refutes this argument you're making. Why don't you read it?

Why don't you provide a short summary. My opinion right now is that if the book claims that things we can physically verify ourselves about the world are wrong because of a handful of dead people it doesn't sound like a very good book.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#153

Post by _random_ » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 6:28 PM UTC

aaronem wrote: post #108

_random_ wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The meaning of life is to never die. I hope we will reach this within next few generations. Dead have no choices.

> The meaning of life is to never die. This seems like a difficult philosophy to live with. You will someday die; does your life thus have no meaning? Everyone ever born will eventually die; does human life as a whole thus have no meaning?

I hope to be a part of generation that will have an option not to die. The current implementation of human body dies eventually and it happens to every mind on this planet, yes this is sad. But things are improving.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#154

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 6:29 PM UTC

rooster8 wrote: post #149

aaronem wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Christian in you is a good and honorable person; the Hacker News commenter in you knows that such behavior is never rewarded here unless it happens to line up with the HN zeitgeist, which has little patience with any sort of received wisdom that doesn't agree with its own. I find this really quite marvelous. Who could imagine such a batch of soi-disant freethinkers, who all seem to feel the same need to carefully…

Perhaps it won't be as marvelous to you when you consider that some of these freethinkers have spent years open-mindedly trying to integrate these systems into their lives. Years listening to testimonials, trying to find something to grasp onto. Yet still failed to find enough interest, passion, or problem that it solved in their lives. I don't have to re-install Windows 8 on my laptop once a week to re-confirm the o…

[deleted]

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#155

Post by belluchan » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 6:33 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #143

belluchan wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are all witness accounts from superstitious people who died long ago. Nothing listed is verifiable. This is not good evidence. Witness accounts from dead people should not be enough to discount the mountains of empirical evidence that imply that resurrection after having been dead for three days is not possible.

I disagree. The following document explains my reasoning: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04503a.htm

The explanation given there is sound when it is applied the veracity of historical written records that don't attempt to support the supernatural. It's just about measuring what the more reliable evidence is. Did so and so say such and such to this person and so 500 years ago? Best written records say so, and there are different pieces of records from different people who say so and so we deem it good enough to say it's accurate. That's a totally different ball game than trying to discredit contemporary physical evidence.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#156

Post by philh » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 6:39 PM UTC

pstack wrote: post #150

philh wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't help that life or death issues for men, like testicular cancer, are almost completely ignored. This isn't a great example, because testicular cancer is rarely fatal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testicular_cancer > Testicular cancer has one of the highest cure rates of all cancers: a five-year survival rate in excess of 90 percent overall, and almost 100 percent if it has not spread (metastasized).[6] Ev…

And how do you detect it before it spreads, if the issue is completely ignored and people aren't made aware that they should check for abnormalities and take them serious when they encounter them? Especially for men, who (I think it is a well-deserved stereotype) tend to avoid going to a doctor for anything short of dismemberment.

I don't know. But it looks like currently we do detect it before it spreads, most of the time. So I guess your question has either an answer (e.g. "other symptoms manifest sufficiently early"), or an incorrect premise (e.g. "people actually are aware that they should check").

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#157

Post by sdegutis » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 6:41 PM UTC

belluchan wrote: post #152

sdegutis wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The book I mentioned refutes this argument you're making. Why don't you read it?

Why don't you provide a short summary. My opinion right now is that if the book claims that things we can physically verify ourselves about the world are wrong because of a handful of dead people it doesn't sound like a very good book.

I can only think of three reasons you're asking me why I believe in Christianity (or Catholicism).

1. You want to learn more about Christianity for yourself to see if its worth believing in.

2. You just want to have a conversation with me.

3. You want to find my reasoning so you can tear it down and show me how I'm wrong.

I don't believe #3 is true, as I believe you're a better person than that. And I don't see why you'd be particularly interested in doing #2. In which case, you probably just want to learn more about it.

Since you probably just want to learn more about it, I think you'll find that those books contain all the same answers I could give, and they do a much better job of it than I could.

But I just don't have the time to devote to rewriting them in the form of HN comments. I'd rather spend my Saturday reading the Julia documentation (so awesome) and playing with my kids and teaching my son programming.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#158

Post by sdegutis » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 6:42 PM UTC

belluchan wrote: post #155

sdegutis wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The following document explains my reasoning: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04503a.htm

The explanation given there is sound when it is applied the veracity of historical written records that don't attempt to support the supernatural. It's just about measuring what the more reliable evidence is. Did so and so say such and such to this person and so 500 years ago? Best written records say so, and there are different pieces of records from different people who say so and so we deem it good enough to say i…

You'll find my rebuttal in the books I've mentioned in other comments.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#159

Post by 300bps » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 6:49 PM UTC

chroma wrote: post #97

300bps wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The universe existed for ~ 14 billion years and did just fine without me. It will probably be good for at least another 14 billion years after I'm gone. And the funny thing is, I have never lost a minute of sleep over not having existed for those initial 14 billion years.

I'm not entirely sure how your reply connects to my comment. Are you arguing that death isn't bad? If so, try pointing the argument at someone else: "The universe existed for billions of years and did just fine without you. It will probably be good for eons after you're gone. And the funny thing is, I have never lost a minute of sleep over your non-existence for those initial billions of years." It sounds both psycho…

Are you arguing that death isn't bad?

I'm actually quoting many philosophers and authors that have said the same thing and for which I agree. For example:

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/25647-i-do-not-fear-death-i-...

Essentially, it didn't bother you that you didn't exist 100 years ago. Think hard about why it bothers you that you won't exist 100 years from now.

In 200 years, nobody will remember you.

In 1,000 years, it will be as if you never existed. Just like 1,000 years before you were born.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#160

Post by belluchan » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 7:01 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #157

belluchan wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you provide a short summary. My opinion right now is that if the book claims that things we can physically verify ourselves about the world are wrong because of a handful of dead people it doesn't sound like a very good book.

I can only think of three reasons you're asking me why I believe in Christianity (or Catholicism). 1. You want to learn more about Christianity for yourself to see if its worth believing in. 2. You just want to have a conversation with me. 3. You want to find my reasoning so you can tear it down and show me how I'm wrong. I don't believe #3 is true, as I believe you're a better person than that. And I don't see why y…

I'm not trying to do anything malicious but intentions are irrelevant when it comes to truth. It's either right or wrong. If someone really had a good reason for believing in God I'd like to know about it. I am also interested in atheists who later turn to God because I don't comprehend how such a thing is possible unless they were never rigorous in their scepticism or had some kind of terrible psychological trauma. The latter is known to ruin minds. For example starvation makes people irrational about eating, war, giving birth, etc all have psychological effects that can't be reasoned away.

Anyway thanks for answering my questions. Enjoy your weekend.