How Long Have I Got Left? • Hacker News Board

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#131

Post by sdegutis » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 5:09 PM UTC

belluchan wrote: post #128

belluchan wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what evidence did you eventually find to turn to God if it's not a feelings/faith based thing?

I can't reply to you directly. Why is your faith not blind or unreasoning? Can you give me just one specific example of empirical evidence for God's existence? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'm guessing you're going to give me some unverifiable testimony from people who died long ago and expect that to have a person question heaps of contrary empirical evidence. I don't think that works. And yo…

I've found that you can reply directly by clicking the [link] link, which gives you a reply box.

"The evidence that explain the things that I believe in, like the existence of this computer in front of me, don't require any faith at all."

Not so. You have faith in what your parents told you about the circumstances of your birth. You have no memory of the first year of your life, so it could very well have been made up. But you believe it by faith mixed with reason.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#132

Post by kaoD » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 5:12 PM UTC

aaronem wrote: post #108

_random_ wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The meaning of life is to never die. I hope we will reach this within next few generations. Dead have no choices.

> The meaning of life is to never die. This seems like a difficult philosophy to live with. You will someday die; does your life thus have no meaning? Everyone ever born will eventually die; does human life as a whole thus have no meaning?

I guess it's just to live as long as possible rather than never dying.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#133

Post by pekk » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 5:12 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #103

matwood wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took the same path as you. Forced church when I was younger and then started questioning, and finally was asked not to come to Sunday school anymore. Because the bible says so is simply not an acceptable answer and that is what it all came down to. Today I usually just avoid religious conversations because most people are not aware that I have been there and done that, and I often know more about their religion tha…

Unfortunately you're right, there are many Christians who just like to argue and abuse their "religion" to get their confrontational needs met. There are also many Christians who don't really stand on solid ground in their faith. But there are Christians out there who know what they're talking about, who know more about their religion than the enlightened ex-Christians and educated atheists do. You've probably never…

You have started arguments and confrontations in this thread, where it really isn't relevant, and you haven't backed anything up, and that makes you look like a bit of a zealot. Maybe consider your own behavior instead of pleading for respect of an idealized Christian (who you pretty obviously intend to be yourself). You aren't a martyr here.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#134

Post by sdegutis » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 5:13 PM UTC

belluchan wrote: post #128

belluchan wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what evidence did you eventually find to turn to God if it's not a feelings/faith based thing?

I can't reply to you directly. Why is your faith not blind or unreasoning? Can you give me just one specific example of empirical evidence for God's existence? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'm guessing you're going to give me some unverifiable testimony from people who died long ago and expect that to have a person question heaps of contrary empirical evidence. I don't think that works. And yo…

Here's a good short article on the Resurrection of Jesus[1].

[1]: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12789a.htm

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#135

Post by kirse » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 5:14 PM UTC

300bps wrote: post #92

narrator wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bible makes as much sense as most ancient literature. I read it and compared it to ancient Greek, Roman and Babylonian literature. It's interesting to compare and contrast what values are emphasized over others. The old testament is very into offspring and private property, mainly in the form of livestock. The Greeks are more into glory for its own sake. Gilgamesh is about friendship, civilization vs.nature and t…

The bible makes as much sense as most ancient literature. Key difference is that rational people in 2014 aren't claiming that Zeus may strike you down with a lightning bolt or thinking that Gilgamesh was divinely inspired. The old testament is very into offspring and private property Really? It just seems like a mish-mash of things nobody today would find acceptable. It advocates slavery in many places. Example: http…

What else do you expect? You're not supposed to find most of it acceptable. Why are you surprised when a book that records the fall of man into sin and depravity is both shocking and FULL of stories of man pushing the bounds of depravity? It is brutally authentic and you should be reeling at the accounts of the depths of what mankind has done to himself.

The Bible doesn't "advocate" anything by those verses. Surely you wouldn't read a historical account of World War II and be so naive as to say that the book is "advocating" genocide, would you? That would be totally irrational.

To say that God "advocated" mankind's actions because they are recorded in the Old Testament is completely, utterly false and naive. It's like saying two parents "advocate" drug use when they recount the story of their child's drug addiction and how they attempted to bring their child back to being clean. The parents might even have a part in their story where they demanded their child keep the drug habit to the basement, or maybe even offered clean needles in lieu of the potentially infected ones off the street. But to say they "advocated" for that behavior? Hogwash!

No, the motive you are looking for is "merciful allowance, with a loving hope for restoration."

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#136

Post by sdegutis » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 5:16 PM UTC

belluchan wrote: post #128

belluchan wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what evidence did you eventually find to turn to God if it's not a feelings/faith based thing?

I can't reply to you directly. Why is your faith not blind or unreasoning? Can you give me just one specific example of empirical evidence for God's existence? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'm guessing you're going to give me some unverifiable testimony from people who died long ago and expect that to have a person question heaps of contrary empirical evidence. I don't think that works. And yo…

> I'm guessing you're going to give me some unverifiable testimony from people who died long ago and expect that to have a person question heaps of contrary empirical evidence.

Read the related chapter in The Handbook of Christian Apologetics[1] for reasons why the Gospel stories are reliable eyewitness accounts.

[1]: http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Christian-Apologetics-Peter-K...

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#137

Post by sdegutis » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 5:18 PM UTC

pekk wrote: post #133

sdegutis wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately you're right, there are many Christians who just like to argue and abuse their "religion" to get their confrontational needs met. There are also many Christians who don't really stand on solid ground in their faith. But there are Christians out there who know what they're talking about, who know more about their religion than the enlightened ex-Christians and educated atheists do. You've probably never…

You have started arguments and confrontations in this thread, where it really isn't relevant, and you haven't backed anything up, and that makes you look like a bit of a zealot. Maybe consider your own behavior instead of pleading for respect of an idealized Christian (who you pretty obviously intend to be yourself). You aren't a martyr here.

I don't claim to be perfect. But I'm also not shoving anything down anyone's throats. And I don't see how anything I've said on here constitutes arguing. I think you're confusing me with someone else maybe?

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#138

Post by belluchan » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 5:18 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #134

belluchan wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't reply to you directly. Why is your faith not blind or unreasoning? Can you give me just one specific example of empirical evidence for God's existence? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'm guessing you're going to give me some unverifiable testimony from people who died long ago and expect that to have a person question heaps of contrary empirical evidence. I don't think that works. And yo…

Here's a good short article on the Resurrection of Jesus[1]. [1]: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12789a.htm

These are all witness accounts from superstitious people who died long ago. Nothing listed is verifiable. This is not good evidence. Witness accounts from dead people should not be enough to discount the mountains of empirical evidence that imply that resurrection after having been dead for three days is not possible.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#139

Post by belluchan » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 5:30 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #131

belluchan wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't reply to you directly. Why is your faith not blind or unreasoning? Can you give me just one specific example of empirical evidence for God's existence? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'm guessing you're going to give me some unverifiable testimony from people who died long ago and expect that to have a person question heaps of contrary empirical evidence. I don't think that works. And yo…

I've found that you can reply directly by clicking the [link] link, which gives you a reply box. "The evidence that explain the things that I believe in, like the existence of this computer in front of me, don't require any faith at all." Not so. You have faith in what your parents told you about the circumstances of your birth. You have no memory of the first year of your life, so it could very well have been made u…

In this case that's not me using faith, that's using a heuristic. A heuristic is a decent substitute for empirical research, but it is not foolproof. We use heuristics to save time. If we had to do empirical research for everything in our lives we would never have time to do anything.

A heuristic is a way to ascertain information quickly. In the case of my birth, there's all kind of evidence to back up my parent's stories including photos, the investment and time spent in raising me. None of this is foolproof evidence, but it's enough to pass my heuristic for this situation. And there are measures I can take to get physical empirical evidence, like a DNA test.

The question of who my parents have can be phrased in this way and have an answer "the people who claim to be my parents are not actually my parents if a DNA test disputes their claims."

Please I encourage you to phrase a question as I have for your belief in God. Something like "I would not believe in God if X were true." Fill in the X.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#140

Post by TeMPOraL » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 5:31 PM UTC

thomasz wrote: post #73

vanderZwan wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And would you suggest doctors would take two to three extra hours with every patient to work them through a basic statistics class which still isn't sufficient to explain the concept?

Two to three extra hours is vastly exaggerated, and not that much time for someone who needs to know the chances of dying a horrible death. I might add that this is an objection based on economic argumentation, which, while not invalid, is not the one given by doctors. They argue like the author of the article did: That they know better than you how you will react to this kind of information, and that they can manage…

I had some university classes with a doctor few years ago; he brought up the WHO definition of health:

"A state of complete physical, mental, and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity." (emphasis mine)

He then told that questions like "should we tell the patient that he has two years left, and watch him and his family live the life of constant worry and sadness (and probably of a therapy that will add a year or so to the total lifespan, at the cost of being painful for the patient and very taxing to the family), or should we omit that information and let him live his life out in peace and happiness?" are part of an on-going ethical debate in medicine - because of the need to balance the "mental well-being" part with the "absence of disease".

Also, while telling the truth is a virtue, doing so knowing that people had, and will, predictably hurt themselves with it seems less so.