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How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

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Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#441

Post by abalone »

pg wrote: post #148

It seems like we should be able to measure whatever effect there was. There must be sources of data about salaries in the Bay Area. Has anyone tried looking to see if there is a depression in tech workers' salaries, relative to people in other fields, during the time this agreement was in force?

> Has anyone tried looking to see if there is a depression in tech workers' salaries, relative to people in other fields...

You want to use other fields as a control? That makes little sense. From 2005-2009 the tech industry grew at a vastly greater rate than most other fields.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#443

Post by ericd »

hayksaakian wrote: post #326
ericd wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because working in tech, you can add value to society rather than leeching off of it in spectacular fashion?

Arguably, he could use his wall street money to pay a more altruistic developer to add value to society, while he enjoys his money.

Expected value of additional devs in the world if he goes to Wall St. is far below 1. There's a shortage of devs, and it's not really due to a lack of compensation.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#444

Post by wildgift »

ekianjo wrote: post #257
wutbrodo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this the first negative thing you've read about him? None of them are flattering at all, and most of them are at the scumbag/crook level.

And yet he is celebrated in books, media, and movies. That's setting the right example for the kids!

So was Rockefeller.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#445

Post by wildgift »

mooreds wrote: post #406
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently, they're all for free markets, except when it affects their bottom line! Seems to be a trend in every discipline, why should Big Tech be any different? See: Big TELCO, Big Banking, Big Oil, Big Ag etc...

Err, I think it is more a human trend, than a "big" trend. Most everyone I know loves the benefits of competition, except when they are competing, then they aren't as big a fan. (Yes, yes, there are the people who love competition even when they are competing, but I find that they are fairly uncommon.)

Capitalism hates competition. I think Adam Smith said that.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#446

Post by wildgift »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #69
firstOrder wrote: post #50

The typical response I hear to the idea of more widespread labor unions or AMA-like professional associations for programmers and network/systems/storage/database administrators is that if someone is really talented, they can negotiate a good salary, and that labor organizing together would just protect the lazy and the slackers. You hear this same thing when someone is lowballed a salary number, or has to put up wit…

Tech engineers get pushed around by upper management and have failed to professionalize like doctors because too many of them lack social and political savvy. It's a clear personality trait in the profession. Look at the way so many programmers choose to dress and groom. Can you imagine a top lawyer looking like that? The importance of projecting a serious professional image to the broader society doesn't seem to eve…

True, techs are often nerds, but not always. Look at someone like Larry Ellison, or a lot of startup founders, etc. Also, look at how FOSS was created - by nerds. So, nerds can organize socially.

There are unions for cinematographers and editors in the media. Those are two terribly "nerdy" jobs, and the people who do them are, honestly, huge nerds.

Musicians have a union, and a pension system, and generally do pickup work rather than working for companies. And the musicians in that union are quite a mix of people ranging from "alternative" people (aka, cool nerds) and classical musicians.

Dressing is not important. Business casual is good enough unless you're working in an orchestra. You can be professional in jeans and short sleeved shirts. Most physicians in the ER dress casual.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#447

Post by wildgift »

josho wrote: post #170
morgante wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's also the beauty of software development—I don't need to have a fancy degree or work ridiculous hours as an associate/intern to get a job in it.

Or given the startup context of this site, I'd phrase it as software development has no Barriers to Entry, which as startups (and yourself) have learned is great for getting into the market, but can be really bad once you establish a foothold and gain experience and realize that competition from new entries into the market severely undercut you on price. So, for those in the industry we need to find ways to add barri…

Rather than barriers - create talent tiers, and have professional associations control the tiers and education.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#448

Post by wildgift »

tsax wrote: post #217
michaelochurch wrote: post #188

I am so glad this is being revealed now. It's not exactly new, but this is the perfect time. Why? Because Google Bus Protests, that's why. This is a chance for the people and the engineers to line up, shoulder to shoulder, on the same side and take down the fuckers who've become the elite of this system. The resistance begins.

Er yeah. The 'people' i.e. astroturfed left-wing activists are protesting the employees, not the CEOs.

Please. I know activists like the Google bus protesters. I'd call them protest enthusiasts, and usually less than half work for professional activist outfits. Most have regular jobs and just love to protest.

The "astroturf" is fwd.us and peers.org are pure astroturf. You can't even get a political position out of them until their lobbyists have written the legislation and tried to insert it into some bill.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#449

Post by hahainternet »

consz wrote: post #438
rfnslyr wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely right. I'm demanding a 500k bonus from my boss tomorrow or I'm GONE!

You should. I write code in another industry (HFT) and most people coming out of college are getting 400-500k bonuses or more after a year. We joke about how raw of a deal the average developer in SV is getting -- Google has roughly the same net profit/employee that we do (maybe even more), and all they're getting is chump change.

I both hate and admire you for that. One bonus like that is all I need to finish plans for good. I know talented programmers getting the equiv of $50k and I wish I could do something for them.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#450

Post by dchichkov »

johnmaddox wrote: post #311
kirubakaran wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has always been there. "Jobs told him that Atari gave them only $700 (instead of the offered $5,000), and that Wozniak's share was thus $350. Wozniak did not learn about the actual bonus until ten years later, but said that if Jobs had told him about it and had said he needed the money, Wozniak would have given it to him." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Wozniak

I really respect Steve Wozniak. But why does he not rebel and leave him. Why does any body surrender when they have a choice unlike most others. And this is the reason i wish there are more people like RMS who are both talented and have deep philosophy.

Would you care to guess why?
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