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This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

ariannasimpson.com

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Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#91

Post by genericuser »

kevingadd wrote: post #9
meritt wrote: post #3

> In my mind, it’s a little preposterous that if I want to do so, however, I have to be ok with being felt up and indirectly insulted. To the author: You're right, it's unacceptable but you know how to fix it? You say something at the point in which it occurs. Nip it in the bud. Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree…

Someone with such a messed up perception of personal boundaries and acceptable behavior that they would FEEL UP SOMEONE IN PUBLIC is not necessarily going to stop just because you tell them. They might get more aggressive.

They 'might' do just about anything if you tell them to stop. (including stop)

The point is if you don't try, they have already shown what they plan to do. And in a group of people with two people you know some of the risk is mitigated.

Now I think she handled a bad situation quite politely, and she has no obligation to put effort into making that particular situation better.

However I believe that in making the blog post she is showing herself to be a person who both wants to and is brave enough to make the situation better. But as mentioned by the gp the people who read these types of blog posts are largely the type of people who believe we should treat everyone like a person. As such helping out further by informing the person or group of people of their unwelcome and in this case inappropriate behavior could further that goal of improving the situation for everyone.

Edit: I am a privileged white male who realizes I might have huge misconceptions about what it is exactly like to live as one who is treated with less privilege, so would welcome criticism of my view point. So if my above comment smacks of 'of course you think that you've never had to deal with....' I would like to know.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#92

Post by [deleted] »

zasz wrote: post #36
meritt wrote: post #3

> In my mind, it’s a little preposterous that if I want to do so, however, I have to be ok with being felt up and indirectly insulted. To the author: You're right, it's unacceptable but you know how to fix it? You say something at the point in which it occurs. Nip it in the bud. Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree…

What exactly do you want her to say? "Hi, stop being a dick, because this kind of behavior is a serious turn off to women who want to be involved in tech?" That's obviously not going to fly. So what about, "Hi, could you not awkwardly hug me?" What people say in response to that is, "Why are you being mean to me? I was just trying to be friendly." It's extremely hard to say something in the moment without getting ste…

[deleted]

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#93

Post by jaxytee »

blairbeckwith wrote: post #20
runjake wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really turned off by these posts, too. I roll my eyes and mutter "Christ, not another one". But I'm a male who doesn't have to worry about being groped and I keep my hands to myself. But let me guess how the reality turns out for her: - She says something about it. - The guy who is misbehaving is probably physically bigger than her. She may feel fearful of speaking up. or - She speaks up and gets called a "prude"…

disclaimer: I'm on her side. I've never really understood the potential-physical-confrontation argument. It must be a very, very small minority of men who's first reaction to being embarrassed and shamed by a woman is to physically assault her in public?

Well he damn near sexually assaulted her in public. Once he rested his hand on on her leg like she was his girlfriend, she had every right to be weary of this guy.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#94

Post by ANTSANTS »

ossreality wrote: post #61
ANTSANTS wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that says more about the Bitcoin community than it does anything about the tech community, though. I imagine the average Bitcoin user as more a fedora-toting internet troll than a crypto-enthusiast. If you look at various cryptocurrency forums, the average user barely knows anything about computers, has little interest in learning more, and just wants someone to hold their hand through the process of getting…

>I imagine the average Bitcoin user as more a fedora-toting internet troll than a crypto-enthusiast. Well, at least you disclosed that you're just projecting that image onto strangers you don't know. I can make up reasonable sounding things too! Bitcoin supporters are more likely to be libertarians and thus are more likely to respect individuality, boundaries and privacy. Thus, I'm shocked to hear of a bitcoin suppor…

>What does encryption, proof of work algorithms or anything else have to do with one's likelihood of being gross towards women?

I think it's safe to say that the average Bitcoin user, today in this year 2014, only cares about getting rich quick by speculating on it and other cryptocurrencies and doesn't give a rat's ass about how the technology is implemented or what impact it might have on our future. Those are the people I'm stereotyping, not people (presumably) like our fellow Hacker News readers who see it for the fascinating and potentially century-defining idea it is.

Yes, based on experience on cryptocurrency forums and similar things, I have a negative stereotype ingrained in me of the kinds of people who are interested in get-rich-quick schemes and speculating on bubbles. Which is all Bitcoin is to most of its users: a get-rich-quick scheme.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#96

Post by stefan_kendall »

aetherson wrote: post #16
[deleted] wrote: post #4

[deleted]

No. The guys she's writing about need to not: * Hug people they've never met. * Put their hands on people's legs seconds after meeting them. * Put everything a particular woman says into the frame of "Women don't do X." * Assume that women who attend tech meetups are exclusively there as the girlfriends of the men present.

Immediately becoming physical is a valid showing of sexual interest. If she wasn't interested, she should have stopped it immediately.

I've had it go both ways and end in sex, although never in a professional setting.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#97

Post by sliverstorm »

vellum wrote: post #87
slewis wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not on the author to say something. There were a handful of other people there who could have spoken up. Please, everyone, if you witness this type of rude behavior, speak up. We are all, male, female, undecided, both etc. responsible for improving treatment of non-males in tech. Take an active role.

There were a handful of other people there who could have spoken up. If you don't know who any of these people are, or how they know each other, it's hard to tell what's going on. Having said that, I'm all for banning gropers from meetups.

This one raises a good point, especially if the girl is halfheartedly trying not to make a big deal of it, as this one described. It might be tough to spot for a crowd of people practically defined by their inability to detect nonverbal social cues.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#98

Post by prawn »

sliverstorm wrote: post #58
zasz wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly do you want her to say? "Hi, stop being a dick, because this kind of behavior is a serious turn off to women who want to be involved in tech?" That's obviously not going to fly. So what about, "Hi, could you not awkwardly hug me?" What people say in response to that is, "Why are you being mean to me? I was just trying to be friendly." It's extremely hard to say something in the moment without getting ste…

Not a woman, but perhaps something like "This is much too forward of you", in a disapproving tone. Nothing makes me quickly reconsider my actions like this words, even if it turns out she was kidding. It provides the suggestion that if he proceeded differently, there might be a chance, but if he continues this way there is not. That suggestion might be enough to restore at least a semblance of normal interaction?

At the hug, she says "Sorry, we've only just met." And removes herself from it if it lingers. If he makes a joke about getting to know her, she says "That's a bit creepy, aren't we here to talk Bitcoin?" And moves on.

At the hand on the thigh, remove it firmly, say with some volume "Please don't put your hand on my leg, it's inappropriate." Then stand up to move seats. If there are no seats, ask "Can someone spare some room down this (other) end of the table?"

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#99

Post by rayshan »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #60

Maybe it isn't related to Bitcoin and Tech so much as it is related to, say, USA and SF? Because I can't imagine such stories materialize in other places (of developed word and large parts of developing world either). You just seem to have enough peculiar traits from both gender sides for a perfect storm.

The event was in NYC not SF. SF / SV has its own share of problems but the one being discussed here isn't unique to SF or the U.S. Though I do wonder how the U.S. rank in terms of % of women in STEM majors or STEM careers.

Also the issue here has something to do with bitcoin attracting early adopters and groups with certain political preferences. I certainly wouldn't call the bitcoin subculture mainstream yet.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#100

Post by silencio »

sliverstorm wrote: post #58
zasz wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly do you want her to say? "Hi, stop being a dick, because this kind of behavior is a serious turn off to women who want to be involved in tech?" That's obviously not going to fly. So what about, "Hi, could you not awkwardly hug me?" What people say in response to that is, "Why are you being mean to me? I was just trying to be friendly." It's extremely hard to say something in the moment without getting ste…

Not a woman, but perhaps something like "This is much too forward of you", in a disapproving tone. Nothing makes me quickly reconsider my actions like this words, even if it turns out she was kidding. It provides the suggestion that if he proceeded differently, there might be a chance, but if he continues this way there is not. That suggestion might be enough to restore at least a semblance of normal interaction?

As a woman, what I hate is when I'm trying to be nice and proper and educational about telling people to back off and they use that as a springboard to go all "who, me?" or maybe "oh, okay" and then assume I'm a frigid bitch anyway instead of recognizing that they're the ones making a big mistake.

So nowadays I am of the shove the offending body part off and "get your hands off me" mindset because it doesn't really matter. I don't need to be nice about someone invading my personal space especially if I'm going to be known as a frigid bitch anyway. It's also not my problem to educate that person on basic human interaction no matter who they are and no, I refuse to accept stereotypes as an excuse for what they did. (I would expect no less if I were doing the same to someone else - minus the frigid bitch part.)

Regardless, the other problem with confronting something as it happens - that a lot of people here right now don't seem to recognize - is that sometimes you don't even fully realize what's going on until after it's happened or started. Either you're in shock, or you're not noticing how fast something escalated. You also might have no idea what to do because you're worried about the consequences (which range from physical force to losing your job and death threats and "frigid bitch" namecalling). It's not easy. I only wish it were, and I speak from a rather privileged perspective where I work for myself, don't care about what people say about me most of the time, and have a big, tall, hairy fiancé and a big, tall, intimidating roommate to back me up.

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