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How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

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Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#331

Post by gldalmaso »

hashmap wrote: post #212
cs702 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt we will ever be able to "measure" the effect. We can only guess and debate it with hypothetical scenarios -- "what if all these CEOs had had to compete for talented employees, instead of fixing the market for them?" Regardless of the effect, it is a shame to see that these leading CEOs, who for years have vociferously complained about media & telecom oligopolies for preventing competition, were for years simu…

What are you talking about? A "free market" encourages exactly this behavior! If it weren't illegal it would go on indefinitely.

I think what the parent means is that these companies are all for free markets only to turn to informal regulation amongst themselves, making them de facto hypocrites.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#332

Post by chris_wot »

wozniacki wrote: post #330
31reasons wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woz is someone who is straight out of fairytales. I wish I had a friend like him.

Wozniak on Jobs : *...told Jobs the good things these machines could do for humanity, not the reverse. I begged Steve that we donate the first Apple I to a woman who took computers into elementary schools but he made my buy it and donate it myself.* http://i.imgur.com/a1I9DTs.jpg https://plus.google.com/+CarmsPerez/posts/GnVTvQNgvpf

I seriously consider Steve Jobs to be a sociopath.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#333

Post by jasonkester »

msoad wrote: post #26

Engineers should make more money than what they are making now. The largest number I heard lately is $240k for a data scientist from Apple. That's too low! That person can make Siri better and make millions for Apple. Why aren't we getting paid like lawyers? If they win $20M they will get paid at least $2M. But if we make a product that generates $20M profit, at best we get $20K bonus. This has to change!

$240k is not the upper bound though. Granted, it's a good salary for an employee, but that's really just an indicator that maybe you don't want to be an employee.

In reality, your salary as a developer is unbounded. There are plenty of examples here of engineers who have built their own software product businesses that bring in orders of magnitude more than the number you quote.

If you're good at what you do, there's really nothing stopping you from going out and getting that lawyer money. You just have to step outside the conventional path a little bit.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#334

Post by daemin »

godzilla82 wrote: post #302
daemin wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it actually the same day? That would be quite harsh. E3 Visa holders get 2 weeks IIRC.

Yes, right, 2 weeks and that makes it so less harsh!

Indeed, some time is better than being on a plane that night.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#335

Post by johnmaddox »

wozniacki wrote: post #330
31reasons wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woz is someone who is straight out of fairytales. I wish I had a friend like him.

Wozniak on Jobs : *...told Jobs the good things these machines could do for humanity, not the reverse. I begged Steve that we donate the first Apple I to a woman who took computers into elementary schools but he made my buy it and donate it myself.* http://i.imgur.com/a1I9DTs.jpg https://plus.google.com/+CarmsPerez/posts/GnVTvQNgvpf

After all this why does Steve Wozniak stay with him.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#336

Post by nknighthb »

pille wrote: post #292
auctiontheory wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in Germany I'd be hard-pressed to find you a non-management tech job that makes north of 90k USD/year. How is that relevant? (And) Once you factor in healthcare, education (for kids) and housing, I suspect that 90K USD in Berlin goes just as far as 200K USD in Silicon Valley, probably a lot further.

It doesn't. Germany is having its own little housing price explosion in every major city where there is employment. Prices are being driven up by wealthy non-tech investors throughout the EU thinking German (and London) real estate is the only safe place to hold onto their fortunes. Consumer goods prices are also significantly higher than in the US. Healthcare is approximately the same cost now from what I've seen wi…

> Healthcare is approximately the same cost now from what I've seen with ACA prices in the US.

Germany has $6,000+ deductibles? Thin provider networks that leave out the good doctors and hospitals, and large or even unlimited out-of-pocket limits for out-of-network care?

Monthly premiums are just the beginning of the story.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#337

Post by boobsbr »

patio11 wrote: post #205
pg wrote: post #148

It seems like we should be able to measure whatever effect there was. There must be sources of data about salaries in the Bay Area. Has anyone tried looking to see if there is a depression in tech workers' salaries, relative to people in other fields, during the time this agreement was in force?

Remember when Facebook started aggressively poaching Google employees and Google responded publicly by giving every engineer a substantial raise and privately in ways substantially more expensive than that? And Facebook pretty much just laughed and matched offers? And every engineer in the Valley figured out simultaneously that $100k was a floor not a ceiling? That strikes me as persuasive anecdotal evidence of what…

I'm in Brazil and can only dream of BRL 100k/y, which is about USD 41k/y.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#338

Post by JetSpiegel »

chris_wot wrote: post #332
wozniacki wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wozniak on Jobs : *...told Jobs the good things these machines could do for humanity, not the reverse. I begged Steve that we donate the first Apple I to a woman who took computers into elementary schools but he made my buy it and donate it myself.* http://i.imgur.com/a1I9DTs.jpg https://plus.google.com/+CarmsPerez/posts/GnVTvQNgvpf

I seriously consider Steve Jobs to be a sociopath.

How can he be so successful otherwise?

By a certain measure of successful.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#340

Post by GFischer »

conanbatt wrote: post #240
sounds wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To anyone just starting their tech career in the US, pay attention to the parent comment. Edit: parent deleted the comment, so here it is: (I sincerely hope the parent is not getting hauled off in handcuffs as we speak.) As a former Intel engineer the only thing that surprised me is how high up these abuses went. These companies and their leaders are scum to the highest degree. Between refusing to consider american c…

H1-B leaves as an indentured servant? I am working in the US under a temporary work visa, and by no means Im enslaved or abused. I have a market competitive wage for my skills, and have the most engaging and rewarding job i ever found as a software engineer other than personal projects. In fact, It's a huge effort and sacrifice to move to the US for work, leaving friends and family behind. US is not qatar, i can alwa…

I agree that calling an H1B an "indentured servant" is a bit of an hyperbole.

But you certainly have a lot lower leverage than an US citizen.

As you say, you can leave whenever you want, but you went through hardships to go to the US, and back in Argentina you're going to find awful working conditions - a 25.000 pesos salary is about 1500 dollars right now, good luck with that, and that's the salary I was offered not very long ago.

So, you're lucky you're not treated differently at your company, and most H1Bs I know aren't either, but some do have abusive bosses or situations they have to tolerate or get deported.

Edit: see link and discussion

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7113881

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