Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

pando.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 488 posts

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#291

Post by CGudapati »

marme wrote: post #275
dredmorbius wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H1B throws all that much more friction into an already unequal relationship, tossing power further to employers. My preferred reform would be for H1B to be fully unrestricted. If you're going to allow labor into the country, let it compete on fully equal footing with domestic labor. For the reasons Smith articulates and you've either failed to read or are intentionally choosing to ignore, employers already have the u…

real changes that need to be made to h1b are the fact that they need to prioritize the h1bs to foreigners who graduate from US universities. Every year thousands of foreign PhD students graduate and go back to their home country not because they want to but because they could not get an H1B visa mostly because they wont work at the cut rate a person fresh from their home country would work for. These PhDs are trained…

Is this true? I am from India and want to do a PhD in US. I thought the work opportunities of PhD gards is good.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#292

Post by pille »

auctiontheory wrote: post #225
pille wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in Germany I'd be hard-pressed to find you a non-management tech job that makes north of 90k USD/year. It would be great if someone could prove me wrong.

And in Germany I'd be hard-pressed to find you a non-management tech job that makes north of 90k USD/year. How is that relevant? (And) Once you factor in healthcare, education (for kids) and housing, I suspect that 90K USD in Berlin goes just as far as 200K USD in Silicon Valley, probably a lot further.

It doesn't. Germany is having its own little housing price explosion in every major city where there is employment. Prices are being driven up by wealthy non-tech investors throughout the EU thinking German (and London) real estate is the only safe place to hold onto their fortunes. Consumer goods prices are also significantly higher than in the US.

Healthcare is approximately the same cost now from what I've seen with ACA prices in the US. Education is still cheaper, but only if you assume an American student will have zero financial aid. I also doubt this lower price tag offsets the prices and regressive taxation elsewhere throughout the economy.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#294

Post by dredmorbius »

dmnd wrote: post #285
underwater wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the E3 visa - and AFAIK the H1B - you can't be out of work for more than 10 days. If you're not confident you can find a similar salary (and have an approved LCA) within that time then that makes the idea of rocking the boat a little more scary.

I'm not keen to defend the ridiculous immigration system, but it's possible to avoid this risk in the following way: You can interview at, accept an offer from, apply for and receive a new LCA for another company all while continuing to work at your existing job. This means you have a new job and (preparatory documents for a new) visa set up before even giving notice and triggering the 10 day period. I know this from…

That remains a constraint a permanent resident wouldn't have to face.

More specifically: in a case where an H1B holder had concern for employer retaliation (say: working for a sketchy, illegal, or otherwise undesirable firm), and was looking for an option to leave (or possibly whistle blow), the fact that not having employment would be grounds for deportation within short order would be a constant threat.

I've known many people over the years who've had varying levels of frustrations with emigration issues. Many spent at least some of that time as undocumented, what some like to call "illegal", including working without authorization. For others it was merely the frustration of waiting while an impenetrable and slow process worked its way, with several having to make unavoidable trips out of country to be able to retain eligibility, often leaving work, friends, family, and homes for extended periods (sometimes with greater levels of support and assistance). And this isn't just a DESI situation: Europeans, Canadians, east Asians, doctors, programmers, healthcare professionals, researchers, nurses.

Most eventually settled in the US, some did not.

All had a considerable toll taken on them.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#295

Post by dasil003 »

ryandrake wrote: post #52
dasil003 wrote: post #7

As a programmer sure this annoys me, but I find it a bit disingenuous to tie it to growing societal inequality. Tech workers are definitely on the beneficiary side of the inequality gap, so I don't see how these conspiracies to indirectly keep tech workers salaries down to 2x to 5x of median American household income is really germane.

I strongly disagree that the average tech worker is on the "beneficiary side" of the inequality gap. This is a case of people looking around themselves and seeing they seem to be above average, and concluding that they are on the rich side. Reminds me of a ten-year-old article [1] that presented the remarkable finding that 39% of Americans believe they are or will one day be among the top 1%. It's certainly in the in…

Of course income distribution is technically a smooth curve with no gap, so you can draw that line anywhere you want. Hell, Gates can look over at Slim and shake his head, "God damn 0.0000000001%!"

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#296

Post by enraged_camel »

turar wrote: post #266
emmapersky wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, its not that simple. The new company still has to file a petition for H1B, its just not subject to quota like a first time H1B. its not hard but no way is it as simple as being a citizen.

Yes, but I don't think they need to wait for it to get approved. It's a formality.

You are wrong. It needs to be approved, which can take months unless you pay extra for "premium processing."

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#297

Post by aragot »

icambron wrote: post #195
tomphoolery wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to say, from just this snippet. You forgot to mention that Chizen tried to slime his way out of the problem by claiming he was only hiring junior-level staff. So Steve responded, rather sarcastically, "Okay, so everyone is open game then?", and then Chizen goes "No I was just kidding! Let's just be friends! Tee hee!". I mean, Steve was a douche for a lot of other reasons. But this is savvy business right he…

He was also breaking the law.

And compelled Chizen to stay in the game.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#298

Post by aragot »

steveklabnik wrote: post #42
aspensmonster wrote: post #14

Jobs' comments: >OK, I’ll tell our recruiters they are free to approach any Adobe employee who is not a Sr. Director or VP. Am I understanding your position correctly? >if you [Brin] hire a single one of these people that means war. Chizen's comment: >if I tell Steve [Jobs] it’s open season (other than senior managers), he will deliberately poach Adobe just to prove a point. Knowing Steve, he will go after some of ou…

For more "Steve Jobs does shady things via email," you might enjoy http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/05/the-stev...

Referring to the "Bill Gates does not assume his email is taped" debate, Steve Jobs doesn't seem to care either about those written forsenics.

Which is twice surprising since I've read elsewhere that he was very tight on his own privacy.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#299

Post by krakensden »

dperny wrote: post #283
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Santa Clara, and "affordable" is an extremely relative notion. Silicon Valley itself isn't much cheaper than San Francisco. Berkeley, Oakland and East Palo Alto are not in Silicon Valley. And frankly, they're not as cheap now as they were even 18 months ago. It's still possible to get a one-bedroom apartment for $1000 a month if you look around hard enough, but it's almost certainly going to be small and old…

I'm a student in the Deep South, and getting out to the Bay Area is a dream of mine. Here's to hoping the price comes down in the next couple of years.

It's not that bad if you're willing to split a house or apartment. And if you're working for BigCo, affording a place won't be hard. 100K is a lot.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#300

Post by dmnd »

dredmorbius wrote: post #294
dmnd wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not keen to defend the ridiculous immigration system, but it's possible to avoid this risk in the following way: You can interview at, accept an offer from, apply for and receive a new LCA for another company all while continuing to work at your existing job. This means you have a new job and (preparatory documents for a new) visa set up before even giving notice and triggering the 10 day period. I know this from…

That remains a constraint a permanent resident wouldn't have to face. More specifically: in a case where an H1B holder had concern for employer retaliation (say: working for a sketchy, illegal, or otherwise undesirable firm), and was looking for an option to leave (or possibly whistle blow), the fact that not having employment would be grounds for deportation within short order would be a constant threat. I've known…

Oh, of course. I completely agree that the system is horrific. I only wanted to point out how one can minimize their risk if one is forced to interact with it.
Post reply on HN