Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

pando.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 488 posts

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#111

Post by randomdata »

kareemm wrote: post #62
a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lawyers and doctors who get paid a whole lot are partners in a firm. It's not much different than founding a tech company.

Not really. A competent freelance developer in the valley will make $150-200/h. A competent lawyer (not a partner) in the valley will make $350+/h.

What happened to the news in the past year or so about the large glut of lawyers in America, having to work for relative peanuts because of supply outpacing demand? Has the valley somehow managed to keep them out?

Or is it that specialized lawyers can make $350+/hr? In which case developers with certain specialities can make that much as well.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#112

Post by d23 »

> These secret conversations and agreements between some of the biggest names in Silicon Valley were first exposed in a Department of Justice antitrust investigation launched by the Obama Administration in 2010.

Why is it that lines like this never quite make it into the comments section here?

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#113

Post by rfnslyr »

MarkPNeyer wrote: post #109
rfnslyr wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that I'm a 21 year old drop out making nearly 100k because I sat in my mom's basement for a few years and studied software that interested me is pretty crazy.

why? what makes you think you aren't worth 10 times that?

How do I properly quantify exactly how much value I'm adding to the company I work for and the world to possibly determine how much I'm precisely worth?

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#114

Post by vacri »

msoad wrote: post #26

Engineers should make more money than what they are making now. The largest number I heard lately is $240k for a data scientist from Apple. That's too low! That person can make Siri better and make millions for Apple. Why aren't we getting paid like lawyers? If they win $20M they will get paid at least $2M. But if we make a product that generates $20M profit, at best we get $20K bonus. This has to change!

Why aren't you getting paid like lawyers? Because tech companies don't operate like legal partnerships. As a techie, you are an employee, not a partner.

Don't forget either that lawyers don't just 'make money', they 'prevent loss'. That $20M suit that ends in your favour also comes with a nice injunction preventing your opponent from doing -foo- again. Techies can't do that.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#115

Post by [deleted] »

firstOrder wrote: post #50

The typical response I hear to the idea of more widespread labor unions or AMA-like professional associations for programmers and network/systems/storage/database administrators is that if someone is really talented, they can negotiate a good salary, and that labor organizing together would just protect the lazy and the slackers. You hear this same thing when someone is lowballed a salary number, or has to put up wit…

[deleted]

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#116

Post by pyrrhotech »

msoad wrote: post #26

Engineers should make more money than what they are making now. The largest number I heard lately is $240k for a data scientist from Apple. That's too low! That person can make Siri better and make millions for Apple. Why aren't we getting paid like lawyers? If they win $20M they will get paid at least $2M. But if we make a product that generates $20M profit, at best we get $20K bonus. This has to change!

agreed, I'm trying to get out of engineering for this reason. I can make 3.6 million bonus on wallstreet, why waste my time here.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#117

Post by aswanson »

sjg007 wrote: post #107
ryandrake wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference being that you don't necessarily have to take the enormous risk of founding a company in order to become a partner in a law firm. Is there a similar career path for engineers in any tech company that is the equivalent of "making partner" in a law firm? Genuinely curious.

Sure, make partner in a boutique software consulting firm.

Problem is, boutique implies specialty. In tech, specialties involve short term expertise. Experience works against specialists in our field, whereas in fields like law and medicine, specialization is likely to increase value over a career lifetime. We are up against a far more sinister s-curve in the experience/perceived utility equation.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#118

Post by aswanson »

pyrrhotech wrote: post #116
msoad wrote: post #26

Engineers should make more money than what they are making now. The largest number I heard lately is $240k for a data scientist from Apple. That's too low! That person can make Siri better and make millions for Apple. Why aren't we getting paid like lawyers? If they win $20M they will get paid at least $2M. But if we make a product that generates $20M profit, at best we get $20K bonus. This has to change!

agreed, I'm trying to get out of engineering for this reason. I can make 3.6 million bonus on wallstreet, why waste my time here.

Amen.

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#119

Post by GVIrish »

rohunati wrote: post #82
msoad wrote: post #26

Engineers should make more money than what they are making now. The largest number I heard lately is $240k for a data scientist from Apple. That's too low! That person can make Siri better and make millions for Apple. Why aren't we getting paid like lawyers? If they win $20M they will get paid at least $2M. But if we make a product that generates $20M profit, at best we get $20K bonus. This has to change!

Are you actually complaining about 240k? If that isn't myopia, idk what is. Most people would kill for that salary.

That's the rub though, 240k may be a lot to you, but what if that data scientist is delivering 100 times that value to the company? Who's to say that person shouldn't be paid $500k or $1 million a year.

The Yahoo COO who just got let go was paid $109 million in two years. He got a $29 million severance package. Would it be too crazy to suggest that maybe a brilliant engineer who was a major contributor to the success of a problem is worth more than $100-250k a year?

Re: How Silicon Valley CEOs conspired to drive down tech engineer wages

#120

Post by ForHackernews »

rohunati wrote: post #82
msoad wrote: post #26

Engineers should make more money than what they are making now. The largest number I heard lately is $240k for a data scientist from Apple. That's too low! That person can make Siri better and make millions for Apple. Why aren't we getting paid like lawyers? If they win $20M they will get paid at least $2M. But if we make a product that generates $20M profit, at best we get $20K bonus. This has to change!

Are you actually complaining about 240k? If that isn't myopia, idk what is. Most people would kill for that salary.

A lot of these people seem to think they should be paid like Wall Street traders. To which I say, "Fine, go be a trader."
Post reply on HN