Live data from Hacker News

The Hacker's Diet

fourmilab.ch

21–30 of 34 posts

Re: The Hacker's Diet

#21
post #14

If research about "diets" has found anything it's that they don't work. Any calorie counting approach is doomed to fail for most people. This diet is straight out of the Stalinist four year plan school. Normal people have zero chance of tolerating this. The bondage and discipline rigid planning approach doesn't work in any field. People aren't machines.

How does calorie counting not work. You put in less energy than is being used and the body makes up the rest from reserves. Or is the body somehow generating energy without burning fat?

Actually the body goes in to starvation mode and starts destroying muscle to lower energy consumption not to mention the fact that going on a diet lowers blood sugar so you feel tired and stop consuming as much energy.

Re: The Hacker's Diet

#22
post #14

If research about "diets" has found anything it's that they don't work. Any calorie counting approach is doomed to fail for most people. This diet is straight out of the Stalinist four year plan school. Normal people have zero chance of tolerating this. The bondage and discipline rigid planning approach doesn't work in any field. People aren't machines.

How does calorie counting not work. You put in less energy than is being used and the body makes up the rest from reserves. Or is the body somehow generating energy without burning fat?

Or, you put in less energy and consequently lower your metabolism and move less and feel more tired to compensate while your reserves don't change, or even increase, or the difference could be made up by destruction of muscle or organs rather than fat.

If it was as you suggest, you could eat nothing and not starve as long as you have fat reserves.

Re: The Hacker's Diet

#23

I read "The 150 Healthiest Foods on Earth" (Jonny Bowden) recently and took from it this extremely condensed diet advice: "Avoid grains and industrial processing." Grains have near-zero nutrition, and industrial processing is the source of a lot of questionable practices. On this diet, which I've followed just a few weeks, I cheat all the time, but I feel and perform better in ways that I can quantify at the gym: mor…

This is the annoying thing about diet/nutrition advice, and why "The Hacker Diet" is really appealing to me, even if it's a little simplistic -- it's at least logically consistent and has some rationale behind it, even if it's a flawed one. Most diet advice is vague and full of generalizations and never backed up. It makes sense, but you hear often opposing viewpoints made in the same hand-wavy fashion. For instance:…

What's wrong with industrial processing

It's going to be lower quality than unprocessed fresh food, for several reasons:

1) Food spends longer between harvest and mouth, so any nutrients that are lost over time will be reduced in the final product.

2) Food crops are of varying quality, and the highest quality will go directly to places people will see it (e.g. tomatoes in the supermarket vegetable section) and the lower quality (less ripe, overripe, blemished, part squished or bruised) will go to the industrial processing where it ends up not being noticable (e.g. XYZ in tomato sauce).

3) There's a lot of scope for badness to be included in processed foods. When dealing with trailer loads at a time, detailed checks are impractical so contaminants become more possible. Food processing is factory work which is generally low skilled, low paid and long hours, so there's more room for things like poorly cleaned machinery, accidental contamination by people, gross fooling around, a nod and a wink and sod the overbearing health and hygiene rules when workload is high.

4) Labelling laws in some countries only require ingredients of more than X amount to be included, so there is room for contents that you don't know about and therefore can't choose whether or not to eat.

5) Industrial processing is full of bizarre things. Who eats cotton? Nobody. So how come it's OK to put cottonseed oil in food? Why is nickel used as a catalyst in the making of margarine? Nobody uses nickel as an ingredient or as a material for cooking utensils.

6) It exists to make money, not to make you healthy. Food processing is better if it takes cheaper ingredients and makes a more expensive desirable product. They are hacking your perceptions, studying flavouring and colouring and mouth-feel and so on, to make something look and taste nicer, while not actually doing you more good (or even, less harm).

and is there evidence to prove it?

I think this comes under the side of "prove God doesn't exist". Humans lived for a long time without mass food processing, and now we have it it's accepted as fine and the suggestion is that we have to prove that it's bad. Surely the default state is to be without food processing, and supporters should have to prove why it's good? (Apart from the fact that it makes lots of money, that is).

Is it possible to make up for whatever negative effects it (anything one is advised not to eat) has

Who knows? Ask yourself why some 70 year olds are out hill walking, travelling, working, are healthy-albeit-old and some are demented, plagued with ill health, bedridden, seriously forgetful, suffering arthritis, heart disease, loss of balance, etc.

Is it really all luck and genetics?

Re: The Hacker's Diet

#25

If research about "diets" has found anything it's that they don't work. Any calorie counting approach is doomed to fail for most people. This diet is straight out of the Stalinist four year plan school. Normal people have zero chance of tolerating this. The bondage and discipline rigid planning approach doesn't work in any field. People aren't machines.

Actually, it works very well.

The approach outlined here is pretty similar to what Weight Watchers uses. Theirs is a little looser, tracking calories on a weekly basis and offering incentives to eat filling foods. But it's basically the same idea.

I lost 70 pounds in about a year on a system like that, and most of the experience was simply being surprised at how easy it was. There was a bit of a fiery adjustment during the first week, but thereafter, I felt better than ever. I wasn't hungry a lot. I didn't feel overly disciplined. Really, I was eating exactly what I wanted, just subject to the full consequences of the decisions. A year of just paying attention and making informed decisions saw me at my ideal weight, and my main reaction was, "People think this is hard?"

It's not a moral/discipline approach at all. More like lifestyle engineering. You have the numbers in hand, you know what you want to achieve, you know what you're willing to part with and what you aren't. I personally incorporated a weekly pizza & pop D&D night I didn't want to part with . . . and still lost about a pound a week. When you compensate via cost instead of guilt, treats are guilt-free; pizza for lunch just means soup for dinner, pie on Wednesday means no candy bars on Thursday or Friday. It's really just a question of engineering, knowing your body, and setting up the system to do what you want.

The most curious effect of the whole affair was that my appreciation and enjoyment of food went up. My initial approach was that since I could only afford a couple ounces of cheese, I was going to make darn sure it was goooood cheese. But there was a strange feedback there; good food makes you happy faster. An ounce of fancy chocolate left me feeling treated in a way five ounces of crappy chocalate never did--and of course, neither ever satisfied hunger, so the smaller amount didn't matter. Net effect: not hungry, losing weight, enjoying food more.

It really is a total hack.

Re: The Hacker's Diet

#26
I'm definitely not great with the healthy eating (I have Taco Bell leftovers sitting on my desk as I type this), but I really like Michael Pollan's little manifesto thing: "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." To me, this covers the three major guidelines of healthy eating:

  1. Eat real food, not over-processed empty calorie junk.
  2. Don't eat too much of whatever you eat.
  3. No need to give up meat & dairy, but don't go overboard.

Re: The Hacker's Diet

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the annoying thing about diet/nutrition advice, and why "The Hacker Diet" is really appealing to me, even if it's a little simplistic -- it's at least logically consistent and has some rationale behind it, even if it's a flawed one. Most diet advice is vague and full of generalizations and never backed up. It makes sense, but you hear often opposing viewpoints made in the same hand-wavy fashion. For instance:…

carbohydrates are all nothing but sugar, they do nothing for you. Grains are particularly bad because they not only don't provide anything but sugar but they also prevent the absorption of minerals(in the link he explicitly calls out oat meal but others do it as well). Studies show that cutting out grain(note some grains are ok mostly freshly processed grains are bad. Sour dough is OK) will make your teeth immune to…

carbohydrates are all nothing but sugar

Sugars are a pretty essential part of any healthy diet. If you're not eating sugars (complex and simple), you're not eating right.

Re: The Hacker's Diet

#29
post #12
post #2

Except that human bodies are not engines. Calories in != calories out + stored energies. A healthy body will store just enough and discard the rest of the eaten food. For a much more accurate and interesting read, check out Good Calories, Bad Calories.

This is something that really irks me about people when they talk about diets. It takes a species more than 100 odd years or so to get rid of that "eat whatever the frak you can and store as much of it as you can because there is a good chance that you're not going to find much other than grass for a WHILE". Your body is NOT going to just "discard" (poop out) "un-needed" calories. The other thing that bothers me is p…

Your body is NOT going to just "discard" (poop out) "un-needed" calories.

Are you sure of that? I'll offer myself up as a datapoint. My weight is exactly (to the kg) the same as it was 12 years ago. I do not exercise, at all, and eat pretty much whatever I want, whenever I want (and that's a lot.) For comparison purposes, my sister-in-law runs a few miles every day, and consumes less than half the calories that I do-- and her weight has also remained constant for the past decade.

Her incoming calorie-count is much less than mine, and her calories expended is much higher than mine. If my body does not discard un-needed calories, how is it that she's not losing weight, and I'm not gaining weight?

(By the way: I worked for Ben & Jerry's for several years, and ate a pint of ice cream every single day. No weight gain, and only a marginal rise in my cholesterol count.)

Re: The Hacker's Diet

#30

To me the most interesting part of Walkers writings on diet and exercise are the exercise bits: http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/chapter1_2_5.html Very simple and absolutely doable even without any room or extra gear. Don't let the simplicity deceive you.

I think I'll give that a go. I do a reasonable amount of cycling and walking, but it would be interesting to see where my current fitness level puts me on that scale.
Post reply on HN