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Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

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Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#231

Post by dragonwriter »

kenrikm wrote: post #216
vidarh wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a marxist - certainly not aligned with any right wing libertarians. But right from the headline that article disgusts me. Unless they have concrete proof that this specific guy have done something particularly bad (and they've not presented any), calling him out by name and with photos of his home is way over the line to begin with. Not only is it creepy, it is deeply counterproductive and will only serve to alie…

My wife is from Cuba, I've witnessed first hand what "applied" marxism creates, misery and strife. Let alone places like North Korea etc.. Honest question, how do you cope with the reality vs the ideal?

> My wife is from Cuba, I've witnessed first hand what "applied" marxism creates, misery and strife. Let alone places like North Korea etc.. Honest question, how do you cope with the reality vs the ideal?

IME, self-identified Marxists outside of countries run by Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist dictatorships tend to view nominally "Marxist" Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist dictatorships as having roughly the same relationship to Marxism as modern self-identified proponents of democracy outside of Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist dictatorships have usually viewed nominally democratic Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist dictatorships like the "German Democratic Republic" or the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" of having to democracy.

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#232

Post by drharris »

DannoHung wrote: post #112

Whoever wrote this is a fucking lunatic. I mean, common, "His house is a pompous, minimally decorated two story palace with stone lions guarding the door." You lost me right there. And then the parts about Google X developing "war robots" and Google threatening to release a "massive amount of carbon"? Just... no. I thought the protestors had a reasonable argument about Google hindering the development of better publi…

You didn't know that Google has secretly been amassing a huge tank of carbon. There's a big red button that, when pressed, will release that carbon. I thought everybody knew this.

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#233

Post by cafard »

aaronem wrote: post #189
nollidge wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you assume a gun would be randomly taken out in a tense confrontation? Why the hell wouldn't it be? Because everybody's always super calm and patient in such situations?

Don't you imagine it is easier to keep a level head in a confrontation when you are confident of your ability to defend your person, should it become necessary to do so?

That would depend on many things, including whether you were initially inclined to keep a level head and not go to maximum force quickly.

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#234

Post by cafard »

doctorwho wrote: post #12

Where were these uber-concerned citizens while George Bush was raping the US and Iraq? Why are they not protesting at the White House or stopping NSA employees from getting to work? But yeah, trample the rights of individual people, that will help. It's easy (and a lot less dangerous) to hate and pester a guy who makes more money than you. Forget about who's ruining the country and focus on the guy you think is respo…

"Where were these uber-concerned citizens while George Bush was raping the US and Iraq?"

Probably protesting, just not in front of two-story palaces.

"Why are they not protesting at the White House"

Probably they are from time to time, or anyway in front of federal buildings.

"or stopping NSA employees from getting to work?"

I don't know--maybe because they'd have to move to Maryland?

[Edit: Just to clarify, I do think they are schmucks, just more or less consistent ones.]

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#235

Post by diydsp »

aaronem wrote: post #219
diydsp wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one takes "kind of" to mean "not," then yes. Otherwise, no, the point of protest is not to threaten anything or anyone, including revolution. Seriously, just look up protest in a dictionary. It's an expression, a communication. It's a chance for people to respond. It's a visible, recordable effort, as opposed to an anecdote.

Your argument suggests a certain naïveté, or else a desire to claim there is no subtext whatsoever in organizing a mob to serve as the medium of the "communication" to which you refer. Whatever the overt message, and especially when the purported message is as confused and vaguely threatening as in this case, in the act of arranging that someone should awaken, to find a crowd surrounding his house and shouting imprec…

My argument parrots the dictionary. Yours smuggles in all kinds of baggage, such using a weak definition of the word "mob" while implying the strongest and saying "surrounding" when they were likely only in front of.

Your suggestion that a subtext exists would be useful if there were a history of protestors at Google employee's houses. However, there is none beyond what you are imagining in your creative (how do you evidence your statement that they were shouting?) mind.

In fact, now that a peaceful demonstration has taken place outside a Google employee's house, a precedent has begun to form in which the subtext is that employees should NOT feel threatened by protestors. I would not have realized this myself had not you not mistakenly claimed its opposite, so thank you and have an up vote.

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#236

Post by blhack »

DannoHung wrote: post #169
ForHackernews wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are housing prices in San Francisco really so insane that a two-story house is "pompous" and a "palace"? > developing "war robots" Technically, since their acquisition Boston Dynamics, Google is indeed in the business of war robots: http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/google-buys-major-military... Though they've said they're only going to fulfill their existing military contracts, not seek out others. I guess we'll see…

Maybe if this was a protest of a Boston Dynamics employee in Massachusetts, but this guy apparently works for Google X. So... self driving cars and diabetes contact lenses?

>diabetes contact lenses

The way these people see the world: those contact lenses are just one more way for the evil rich to impose their rule on the poor. They get treatment, and the poor don't.

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#237

Post by diydsp »

DannoHung wrote: post #169
ForHackernews wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are housing prices in San Francisco really so insane that a two-story house is "pompous" and a "palace"? > developing "war robots" Technically, since their acquisition Boston Dynamics, Google is indeed in the business of war robots: http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/google-buys-major-military... Though they've said they're only going to fulfill their existing military contracts, not seek out others. I guess we'll see…

Maybe if this was a protest of a Boston Dynamics employee in Massachusetts, but this guy apparently works for Google X. So... self driving cars and diabetes contact lenses?

Cherry picking. The list of Google X projects is largely secret. There are reportedly 98 more. [1]

[1]http://9to5google.com/2011/11/14/sergey-brin-is-working-on-a...

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#238

Post by jpadkins »

Ironically, these anti-Google bay area protesters are starting to sound a lot like conservative anti-immigration talking points.

* We don't want your kind in our neighborhood. * We don't want our culture changed. * Your mere presence is ruining our life. * You are different than us, therefor unwelcome here.

I thought Berkeley was the peaceful co-existence crowd?

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#240

Post by nollidge »

aaronem wrote: post #204
nollidge wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is it that you think because someone has a gun they are incapable of acting rationally? Because they're a real live human fucking being with anger and emotion and desperation and base needs and selfish wants, not a theoretical hyper-rational philosophical strawperson. Real live human beings are pretty classically incapable of acting rationally, and if you think otherwise, I would suggest that you have only very…

Are you by chance familiar with the axiom that, given an audience without any other information about the parties or principles involved in a given argument, the side which presents its claims in a calm, level-headed fashion is more likely to be taken seriously than the side that's red-faced and flinging spittle? I can't imagine what's brought that so strongly to mind just now, but I figured I'd mention it all the sa…

That's not an axiom, it's just an opinion. Personally, I find passion pretty compelling to read/hear, and I won't present my side with a false posture of academic distance if that's not how I feel. Additionally, I'm not really interested in winning over the people who are more concerned with the tone of an argument than the actual facts presented.
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