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Google Video Quality Report

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Re: Google Video Quality Report

#31

Post by sneak »

atonse wrote: post #14
eb0la wrote: post #2

Telcos will have to invest in capacity where Google wants in order to get a good rating. Since Google is a de-facto monopoly, I think we'll see an Antitrust case soon.

If you look at the actual requirements they're talking about, they aren't that crazy. Even for HD video, they're talking > 2.5Mbps. So for really good quality, it's probably 5-6Mbps. I have 85Mbps FiOS at home, and I still sometimes have issues streaming Youtube videos. If my ISP can't even guarantee 10% of what I'm paying for over a fiber optic line, then yes, they need to be called out and publicly shamed.

5mbps per user, times tens or hundreds of thousands of users in a metro area.

Video is the thing that will finally get us faster IP networks, as it slowly replaces TV as the modern opiate of the masses. Even BitTorrent wasn't enough.

Re: Google Video Quality Report

#32

Post by jeffzoom »

Brighthouse (TWC subsidiary) throttles quite a few services these days, Youtube being the biggest one. The throttling is so intense 24 hours a day that Google's streaming algorithm (download a little, play a little, repeat) can't continue downloading after the first initial burst. I can easily break it by VPNing into Work or School.

They very recently started throttling Netflix. I have a 90mbps down connection, and I can hit those speeds even at peak times.

ISPs are trying to strangle companies like Netflix into paying them for use of their network...you know...because Netflix doesn't already pay for an internet connection...they get free internet...because they're Netflix.

This is like the Mob walking into your laundromat and saying:

Mobster: "We own this whole block, and we want you to pay protection".

Laundromat Owner: "But we already pay rent, and protection!"

Mobster: "No, Clothing Protection. You're making a lot of money off dirty clothes, dirty clothes that get cleaned in our building. We want a cut. It would be a shame if someone left a sharpie in every washing machine wouldn't it? Then no one would come to your laundromat."

Netflix: "What if we don't let anyone in who has a sharpie?"

Google: "What if I just tell everyone the Mob ruined their clothes?"

Re: Google Video Quality Report

#34

Post by ajross »

sneak wrote: post #28

In other words, Google thinks a PR campaign and angry customers is cheaper for the same bandwidth to edge networks than just paying the owners of those networks.

Under the net neutrality paradigm, the entities "paying" for the last-network bandwidth are the ISP customers, not the content providers. The content they choose to receive has traditionally been expected to be treated "neutrally" without requiring payment by the provider. This argument has been had, and in virtually all cases our community has agreed (contra the positions of many regulators it seems) that it's a good thing.

Have you flipped on net neutrality or are you just confused because Google is the party harmed in this case?

Re: Google Video Quality Report

#35

Post by atonse »

ihsw wrote: post #22
atonse wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the actual requirements they're talking about, they aren't that crazy. Even for HD video, they're talking > 2.5Mbps. So for really good quality, it's probably 5-6Mbps. I have 85Mbps FiOS at home, and I still sometimes have issues streaming Youtube videos. If my ISP can't even guarantee 10% of what I'm paying for over a fiber optic line, then yes, they need to be called out and publicly shamed.

What about if youtube.com's CDNs are overloaded and slow? Will you blame your ISP? This is the problem with such ratings systems -- they're inherently one-sided.

I actually have much more faith in Google's capacity and CDN than I do in Verizon's history of sleaze.

After all, Google doesn't have a conflict of interest, Verizon does. The better Netflix and YouTube get, the closer I am to canceling my Verizon TV service.

Re: Google Video Quality Report

#37

Post by b3b0p »

earlz wrote: post #3

Good. I swear youtube is throttled by Time Warner Cable for me. I stream Netflix, Hulu, etc and never have problems with them. I can confirm that I'm getting my speeds of 20MBit/s down, and yet almost every video on YouTube buffers. If I use youtube-dl to download the video, I can confirm that my actual connection speed is somewhere around 60KB/s. If I then use youtube-dl on my VPS with the same video, I get somewher…

Same thing happened to me with AT&T in Tulsa with their fastest offering (I think it was 24/3 at the time). All speed tests, downloads, uploads were almost always the advertised speeds, but I couldn't watch Netflix or HBO GO, or Hulu. I could, but it was unbearable. To the point of kicking over magazine stands and throwing Nintendo controllers at the TV.

When I called support about this they claimed it was my setup. A Time Capsule connected to their modem/router. Whatever.

I switched to Cox (100/25) and get better than advertised speeds in all downloads, uploads, and speed tests, and have not had a single issue with buffering on any service. I have even been choosing the 1080p option on YouTube without any buffering.

The only problem I have now is whenever my Time Capsule is directly connected to my Motorola modem it causes the modem to restart, so I had to use a slower, older Linksys in-between the two until I figure out what's the cause of that.

Re: Google Video Quality Report

#39

Post by TillE »

mogelbumm wrote: post #21

Quite often videos are buffering on my 80 Mbit connection at home - however when I switch to tethering with my phones connection, there is no problem. I always had the impression that providers try to cache or throttle Youtube video downloads. So I really appreciate that Google is doing something about it. On a sidenote, the biggest german provider was trying to get money from services like Youtube for delivering the…

Well, I'm on a resold Telekom VDSL connection, and so far all I see is "Results from your location are not yet available."

I've had major problems with YouTube videos in the past (despite having a very reliable 50Mbit down), but recently it's been fine.

Re: Google Video Quality Report

#40

Post by jerven »

sneak wrote: post #28

In other words, Google thinks a PR campaign and angry customers is cheaper for the same bandwidth to edge networks than just paying the owners of those networks.

Yes, because the customers of the networks have already paid for the bandwidth!

I buy internet access and that includes access to youtube!

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