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Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

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Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#181

Post by nollidge »

tomp wrote: post #163
nollidge wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one deserves to feel unsafe, especially in their own home. Just because they haven't literally harmed his person doesn't mean that they're acting morally.

That's not a particularly good argument, because one of the main point of people protesting the NSA surveillance (which Google is a part of) is that it makes them feel unsafe. It's all a matter of perspective.

I'm not sure how I feel about the protest in general, but I was reacting to the idea that they "haven't hurt anyone". As far as my system of morals is concerned, making someone feel unsafe is still hurting them.

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#183

Post by aaronem »

tomp wrote: post #92
jasonkester wrote: post #51

Absolutely horrifying. More so because there are actually people here in this thread defending the crazy person who's trying to destroy somebody's life because they don't like the company he works for.

The point of the protest isn't to destroy a person's life, the point of the protest is to (1) make Google's employees reluctant to continue being Google's employees and as a result (2) make Google rethink their official and unofficial policies, in order to (3) make the world a better place. AFAIK, they haven't really hurt anybody (this time). They are just pressing the points that (they think will) hurt the most.

> they haven't really hurt anybody (this time)

The implicit threat, made explicit.

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#184

Post by diydsp »

calibraxis wrote: post #40
keidian wrote: post #6

Is this serious or supposed to be satire or something? Cause it reads like something a deranged person would write to me... Making comments about how Google employees automatically bring police, "All of Google's employees should be prevented from getting to work", etc. Yeah they do bring police.. to deal with nutjobs that decide to randomly show up at their houses and stop them from working, stop a bus in the middle…

Just read the PDF, and it's an interesting and reasonable perspective on tech. Probably sounds blasphemous to an audience excited about investments/acquisitions of $15M, $30M and $1.54 billion (from HN's current front page), but I think techies are due for a reasonable backlash for their usual servility to power, by people concerned about their society.

Your perspective on "usual servility" is underrated.

I read the flyer, too. Kind of a PITA to rotate it, but:

It's just their perspective, mostly PR-style publicl-available history of projects for that particular developr. It's worthwhile to read, to remind ourselves to be respectful of the larger scene, rather than just the dollar signs.

Still, it's hyperbolic in places. I think their view would be more persuasive if they talked about "the kind of world we want to live in" rather than leaping to "evil." It would also be more persuasive if they discussed more ways everyday people can avoid giving power to their "opponents." Mom and Pop are much more likely to starve Google by switching to DuckDuckGo than to "take down surveillance cameras."

However, I don't think it's utter crap. Both sides in this issue have some large, philosophical questions to consider.

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#185

Post by kasey_junk »

JeremyMorgan wrote: post #180
kasey_junk wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few questions: Are you white? Are you male? Were you born in a country that had clean running water? What about public education system, or a country that had education loans easily available for you? Did you grow up around people that had jobs? Were literate? Had gone to college? Did you know your parents? How often did you suffer from hunger growing up? All of these are forms of privilege. Some of them may apply…

I am not trying to discount any of those things but I'm sure the protesters had most, if not all of those privileges as well. As far as being white and male, that's a fallacy as well. Do you work in tech? Take a look around and you'll see some of the most diversity of any industry. I worked for a fortune 100 for a large part of my career and most teams had more "minorities" on them than whites. Most of them born in I…

I don't have any characterizations of these kids. I don't live in SF and don't understand the problems at all. They definitely seem misguided from an outsider.

It's not at all a fallacy that being white & male in the US provides privilege. If nothing else the incarceration rate among African-American males in this country means that if you are born African-American there is a significantly higher chance that your father is incarcerated during your childhood than if you are born white. As the child being born white you have the privilege of a higher chance of an non-incarcerated parent. It is just luck of the draw.

Diversity & privilege are not the same things. They are orthogonal issues. A Japanese-American has a certain set of privileges as do European-Americans & African Americans & Africans for that matter. Just because a place hires a lot of Indians does nothing to mitigate the lack of privilege for African American boy children.

Finally, your experience may be completely different than mine, but the Indian colleague's I've had did not come from horrible conditions. Quite the contrary they were among the elite in their country, born with dramatic privileges.

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#186

Post by nilkn »

JeremyMorgan wrote: post #130

I would like to know what this "privilege" is all about. I'm a tech worker who makes a very good salary. Am I privileged? I couldn't afford a fancy high end college, so I chose a cheaper one and got a loan from the Government, which I paid back in full. I studied hard in a public school and those achievements helped me get a grant to offset some cost as well. I got a job in tech support, worked my way up through the…

What about the people who worked just as hard and still can't afford decent housing in the area?

Just one aspect of the privilege you enjoy is the fact that one of your passions in life happened to lead to a high-paying job. I and almost everybody on this forum enjoy this same privilege. This is a particularly insidious one because it's so hard to detect in yourself and admit to. When you're the sort of person who started programming at age 12, with no clue that it would one day lead to a financially prosperous life, it's hard to identify with someone for whom the stars just didn't happen to align in that way.

It's a lot harder to "see a target and hit it" when you have absolutely no interest or passion in the target.

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#187

Post by dntrkv »

mattmaroon wrote: post #84
rexreed wrote: post #36

This is getting to be a bit absurd. I understand and can sympathize with the plight of folks who feel that they are becoming economically marginalized in the region, because in many ways it is really happening. But public badgering of mid to low-level folks is not a way to gain a lot of support. It's like damaging the lobby of a Bank of America or smashing the windows of a McDonalds -- all it does is ruin the day for…

What's ridiculous is, they do it to themselves. If they just used their votes to get a zoning board and laws that let people build housing there wouldn't be this problem. 64% of people in SF rent. If you want lower rents, stop trying to make the city look the same in 2014 as it did in 1964.

I've noticed the same people that are crying about the gentrification are the same people crying about the new buildings killing the culture of the city. It seems like they just want to kick all the new people out and just keep the status quo.

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#188

Post by tomp »

nollidge wrote: post #181
tomp wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a particularly good argument, because one of the main point of people protesting the NSA surveillance (which Google is a part of) is that it makes them feel unsafe. It's all a matter of perspective.

I'm not sure how I feel about the protest in general, but I was reacting to the idea that they "haven't hurt anyone". As far as my system of morals is concerned, making someone feel unsafe is still hurting them.

Isn't that kind of the point of a protest? The threat of revolution?

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#189

Post by aaronem »

nollidge wrote: post #179
BryanB55 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are not trained in self defense and how to use a gun to defend your life maybe you shouldn't be carrying one and you also shouldn't be commenting on it like you know what you are talking about. Why do you assume a gun would be randomly taken out in a tense confrontation? I can spin this idea as well by saying "What if a few rogue protestors were really pissed off, kicked in your front door and began to beat yo…

> Why do you assume a gun would be randomly taken out in a tense confrontation? Why the hell wouldn't it be? Because everybody's always super calm and patient in such situations?

Don't you imagine it is easier to keep a level head in a confrontation when you are confident of your ability to defend your person, should it become necessary to do so?

Re: Demonstration at Home of Google Developer. Google Bus Blocked in Berkeley

#190

Post by baconner »

tomp wrote: post #92
jasonkester wrote: post #51

Absolutely horrifying. More so because there are actually people here in this thread defending the crazy person who's trying to destroy somebody's life because they don't like the company he works for.

The point of the protest isn't to destroy a person's life, the point of the protest is to (1) make Google's employees reluctant to continue being Google's employees and as a result (2) make Google rethink their official and unofficial policies, in order to (3) make the world a better place. AFAIK, they haven't really hurt anybody (this time). They are just pressing the points that (they think will) hurt the most.

They haven't really hurt anybody physically this time would be a more accurate way to put it. Its hard to imagine that he and his family aren't going to be up late nights worrying about what comes next. I'm truly stunned to see folks on hn defending this behavior.
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