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Outbox Is Shutting Down

blog.outboxmail.com

61–70 of 97 posts

Re: Outbox Is Shutting Down

#61
post #5

" senior leadership of USPS made it clear that they would never participate in any project that would limit junk mail and that they were immediately shutting down our partnership." This part is really interesting. Why would USPS do that ? Can someone from outbox elaborate on this ? I would love to get rid of the junk mail that I receive on a daily basis in my mailbox. It is crazy and I have to waste time in taking it…

"Why would USPS do that ?" About 80% of the mail in my mailbox is junkmail. Someone is paying to send that. It seems pretty obvious why the USPS wouldn't want to limit junkmail.

Spam in your e-mail that is slightly annoying but not terribly terrible outside of excess bit and bytes on the net... Senate gets involved.

Spam in your real mail box which even at a quick glace effects:

- waste management resources

- recycling resources

- extra work for USPS (sorting, shipping, delivery)

- extra weight == more gasoline required

- environmental issues (litter, printing chemicals, trees = cut down)

And that is probably just the tip of the ice-berg on actual impact... nope, not an issue, this is how we make money.

I've had a problem with this for years, but there is no way to fix it besides charging the producers of such "mail" an arm and a leg.

Maybe we should push for the death of "Mailbox Neutrality"... or wait, should we support it so they'll kill it off?...

/rant

Re: Outbox Is Shutting Down

#62
post #45
post #30

Seems really strange that they're shutting down. With a substantial customer list and some infrastructure that's hard to build, that's a business that could be sold for something -- perhaps not substantial exit money, but still. That said, they were charging less than what the service cost to provide, and -- judging from the comments here -- less than what their customers valued their services for. So perhaps they di…

"With a substantial customer list" FTA: "we serviced a mere 2,000 customers in two relatively small markets"

2,000 customers is substantial, especially when the feedback from those 2,000 seems to be "I would like to pay you more money"

Re: Outbox Is Shutting Down

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why would USPS do that ?" About 80% of the mail in my mailbox is junkmail. Someone is paying to send that. It seems pretty obvious why the USPS wouldn't want to limit junkmail.

Spam in your e-mail that is slightly annoying but not terribly terrible outside of excess bit and bytes on the net... Senate gets involved. Spam in your real mail box which even at a quick glace effects: - waste management resources - recycling resources - extra work for USPS (sorting, shipping, delivery) - extra weight == more gasoline required - environmental issues (litter, printing chemicals, trees = cut down) An…

The USPS employs 522,144 [1] voting humans who depend on junk mail for paychecks and pensions; email considerably fewer.

Edit: source [1] http://about.usps.com/who-we-are/postal-facts/#H1

Re: Outbox Is Shutting Down

#64
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spam in your e-mail that is slightly annoying but not terribly terrible outside of excess bit and bytes on the net... Senate gets involved. Spam in your real mail box which even at a quick glace effects: - waste management resources - recycling resources - extra work for USPS (sorting, shipping, delivery) - extra weight == more gasoline required - environmental issues (litter, printing chemicals, trees = cut down) An…

The USPS employs 522,144 [1] voting humans who depend on junk mail for paychecks and pensions; email considerably fewer. Edit: source [1] http://about.usps.com/who-we-are/postal-facts/#H1

"email considerably fewer."

How so? I'd say that number is actually much higher.

Re: Outbox Is Shutting Down

#65
I am a current customer of Outbox and also a customer of VirtualPostMail (VPM) for both personal and business mail. And I am a former EarthClassMail (ECM) and PayTrust customer.

Since many seem to be asking about alternatives, I have generally positive views about VPM and ECM. They get the job done, though neither of them will blow your socks off from a technology standpoint (e.g., search, image resolution). I used ECM for 2 1/2 years and then switched to VPM, which I've been using for the last 2 1/2 years. VPM is considerably less expensive than ECM (which probably targets pricing for SMBs rather than consumers).

For reasons I can't grasp, I consider dealing with physical mail one of the most undesirable "life maintenance" activities imaginable. In 2000, I started using paymybills.com (became Paytrust/Intuit) -- basically VPM for bills only plus online bill pay. I paid ~$10/month and easily would have paid double that. I emailed them around 2001 and suggested they expand to provide the same service for all mail. When Intuit acquired Mint, I emailed Aaron Patzer a suggestion that they look into doing to mail what Mint did for financial information. He put me in touch with a product manager he said was looking into this, but apparently it never went anywhere.

When I heard about ECM, I signed up for their service in a heartbeat. It wasn't perfect, but I considered their service to be (barely) worth the $800-$1000/year I paid them. When I learned about VPM, I quickly switched to them and remain a generally happy customer and average about $200/year in fees.

Similarly, I signed up for Outbox the instant I heard of it, wanting to test it out on the trickle of mail I still get at home to see if it might be an improvement on VPM. The one thing I never got from Outbox was peace of mind that they would be around for the long haul, so I thankfully never cancelled my VPM service. I sent Outbox an email in March 2013 inviting them to charge more because I knew today's announcement was inevitable if they did not make some fundamental changes. I never understood why they wouldn’t scan bulk mail I wanted open (you had to have it delivered). But I was cheering for them and am sad to see it come to an end.

[Edit: typo]

Re: Outbox Is Shutting Down

#66
post #36

WHAT. This is really disappointing - first time in a while I've seen an "we're shutting down" announcement and been really, truly, genuinely disappointed by it. Physical mail is but one of many small parts of daily life that's increasingly feeling like an anachronism. The fact that we have to regularly physically go to our mailboxes, open them, receive physical paper communication, and then shred/dispose/keep it all…

Totally agree with this. Their business never made much sense in charging only $5 to "undo" what USPS does, but it worked great and is really useful when travelling. They should have tested a $19.99 price point before shutting down. I'm not sure i would have kept paying it for too long, but worth a shot.

I'm unfamiliar with the specifics of their service but if $5 wasn't working out they wouldn't be able to solve it by simply increasing the price.

Re: Outbox Is Shutting Down

#67
post #58
post #20

Just a FYI there are a handful of companies already doing something very similar. Except instead of physically picking up your mail, they receive it on your behalf (made possible by USPS form 1583 [1]). Then they digitize and forward (you pay S&H.) [1] http://about.usps.com/forms/ps1583.pdf

I'd been wanting something like this as I have a few physical mailboxes but rarely need the physical mail itself. Do you have any useful links to the 1583-based providers?

I used to work for one of the Commercial Mail Receiving Agencies (CMRA) as defined by the Form 1583. Here's a non-comprehensive list:

myus.com, earthclassmail.com, usglobalmail.com, bongous.com, usamail1.com, maillinkplus.com, usa2me.com, usabox.com, reship.com and probably 50 or so other.

The google keywords you want to search with are "mail forwarding" or "international mail forwarding" or "virtual mailbox" to get started. Not all of them offer pictures of the mail or scanning, but some of them definitely do.

It's a REALLY fractured industry because there's essentially zero M&A activity. The Form 1583 is a giant pain to fill out and it ties you to a specific both company and address. Furthermore if you decide to switch from one to another you can't take advantage of the USPS' normal "fill out this form to get your mail forwarded" feature because as far as the USPS is concerned that's the CMRA's problem, not theirs.

In fairness to the USPS it's a really tough task to determine not only what address mail is going to but what person's name (and box/suite/apt/whatever number) it's going to at that address. Then once you figure that out, you have to figure out if that's one of the probably 500 people who are on the "forward" list at any given time. I know because I built a system to that and more for the company I worked at and it wasn't foolproof. So if it can't be automated easily the only alternative is to have the postal worker on the route do it. Where I worked we got many thousands of letters a day, it would have taken our mailman/woman half a day or longer to go through everything trying to match recipients up against the list of 500 people who want forwarding.

Re: Outbox Is Shutting Down

#68
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spam in your e-mail that is slightly annoying but not terribly terrible outside of excess bit and bytes on the net... Senate gets involved. Spam in your real mail box which even at a quick glace effects: - waste management resources - recycling resources - extra work for USPS (sorting, shipping, delivery) - extra weight == more gasoline required - environmental issues (litter, printing chemicals, trees = cut down) An…

The USPS employs 522,144 [1] voting humans who depend on junk mail for paychecks and pensions; email considerably fewer. Edit: source [1] http://about.usps.com/who-we-are/postal-facts/#H1

If only they could hire another 2^11+2^6+2^3 (2144) employees and make it an even 2^19.

Re: Outbox Is Shutting Down

#69
post #62
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"With a substantial customer list" FTA: "we serviced a mere 2,000 customers in two relatively small markets"

2,000 customers is substantial, especially when the feedback from those 2,000 seems to be "I would like to pay you more money"

Not in startupland it isn't. pg's hockey stick growth and all that.

Re: Outbox Is Shutting Down

#70
post #37
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The much more expensive first class mail could be thought of as the subsidy--it allows the USPS to funnel buckets of cheap junk mail into our boxes. Except for package delivery it's all unprofitable though, especially in rural areas.

Are you sure about that? Pre-sorted, pre-coded "junk mail" with a flexible delivery schedule is much cheaper to move through the system.

It's vastly cheaper to deliver but it also pays vastly lower prices.
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