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2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

annualletter.gatesfoundation.org

201–210 of 317 posts

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#201
post #188
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just added the "EDIT" section before I saw your question. That was what made me start questioning my beliefs. Here's a few things the letter said that eroded away the assumptions I had built regarding: POVERTY: > There are still slums and pockets of poverty, but by and large when I visit there now I think, “Wow, most people who live here are middle-class. What a miracle.” > There is a class of nations in the middle…

As a firm believer that overpopulation won't be solved by throwing money at it, and that the people who are having children are the ones who shouldn't, I see most of this as irrelevant. Of course money solves poverty in the short term, no one should be surprised by that. But notice how he keeps comparing one generation with only the previous, and never making long-term assertions. Besides, I doubt Gates can go from t…

Even (especially?) geniuses compartmentalize. I applaud life saving and misery reduction regardless of who does it, and I'm not going to make my approval contingent on an apology for past wrongs.

The Gates foundation seems to be doing the best they can to model as far into the future as feasible so as to make best use of their resources. Models that propose death and misery as their means are rightly viewed with skepticism.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#202
I view this as a political sensitization, and I think it's greater than trying to talk numbers and topics about charities and myths.

I think this foundation is showing that you can be optimistic and right at the same time for many things about charities, but it's not the organization and the means and the money sent that will effectively change things.

I don't know how this foundation works at the political level, and what are the political issues, but I hope it will make people really reflect their view on the world. You don't often have billionaires initiating a communication campaign and articles about charities, and attracting that much attention.

I don't think Bill Gates would really like to answer the question "when did you encounter politics in that work, and what was good and what was not ?", because I don't think that he's a very political guy, but at least he has enormous talent for everything else.

I honestly thinks that diplomacy and politics can immensely help charities. I wish this foundation is not just doing this mission without minding the geopolitics, and has at least a few political partners and advisors. I wonder if they tried to do some lobbying, if just think there is a lot of potential if you try to approach foreign aid with a moderate amount of politics.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#203
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe not leaving people room for conscientious objection is irrational.

Which is defined as being a personal choice, not one you get to force onto others. Which is what they advocate - using their position of privilege to deny the choice to others.

Which force are you talking about? I'm talking about the one that mandates that people pay for contraception with tax dollars.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#204

The United States' news coverage concerning Africa perpetuates these myths. It seems as if 95% of news stories focus on poverty, war and chaos in the continent. They rarely go so far as to differentiate among countries. In fact, many African nations are great centers for innovation. Kenya and Nigeria spring to mind for higher education and mobile computing. As a way of confronting condescending stereotypes, I have of…

The United States' news coverage of the United States makes it seem like a pretty horrible place that nobody would want to live in. Bias certainly plays into it, but the larger problem is the fundamental nature of news reporting. The central fallacy is the idea that watching the news is a way to become informed about what's happening in the world. That's utterly false, it only informs you of some of the more notable or unusual events in the world, while largely ignoring more complex and long term developments.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I have is anecdotal evidence and logic based on that. So I'm afraid I can't give what you're asking for. But my anecdotal evidence is that, growing up, nobody wanted kids and everyone wanted sex. Having kids was feared as something that would ruin your life. Even if in some sense that's technically true (it could ruin your ability to get a good education and make a living), the attitude lasts longer than the fact…

Well, I'll add this then to your experiences: Having my sons was the best thing that ever happened in my life, and I can think of no event in the future that could ever compare to the joy and pride that I feel every day that is a direct result of their existence. Children are life changing, that much is true; in every way. I wouldn't change a thing though. They are a net benefit to the world already based on the feel…

I should point out that, as I said in the other thread, I'm Catholic. And I didn't just inherit my Catholicism, I worked hard to find it. And I examined many of its precepts and tenets (including birth control), and found them each to be reliable and founded on a mountain of logic built on a kernel of faith. So they're my own beliefs. Not inherited, and not held blindly.

That's why I can't support the inclusion of contraception anywhere, among other things. I'm well aware that in some people's eyes this makes me an enemy of women, an enemy of the poor, etc. But I stand by my views without shame or regret, because I have acquired and maintain them with all the integrity I can muster.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#206
post #14

His third point, "Saving lives leads to overpopulation," is a weird straw man. I've never heard of anyone ever suggesting letting suffering children die as some way to keep the population low. He brings up Malthus as another straw man. I'm not sure the point he's trying to make. To stop people from stopping people from saving people's lives? I think he's trying to suggest that the planet has too many people on it but…

I remember raising money for a UN programme that provides neonatal care to African mothers. The programme has an excellent track record of reducing infant mortality in newborns' first thirty days, when they are most vulnerable. A common form of pushback I received was along the lines of "why save them now if it just leads to them starving later." I even had one Pacific Northwest environmentalist openly challenge the…

> why save them now if it just leads to them starving later

We can save them now and have a couple years to solve the starvation problem.

> the concern that saving people now will put undue strain on finite resources tomorrow is real.

Indeed, it is. But their land is not producing at 100% efficiency. It would be a problem if it were, but, since it's not, the population that it can sustain is much larger than what it sustains now.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#207
There are multiple problems with Gates's predition, but two of the biggest are these: 1. Growth in real economic wealth is very strongly tied to growth in real resource consumption. The master resource is energy, but numerous other resources are in tight supply, with a critical set being "bauxite whose production peaked in 1943), copper (1998), iron ore (1951), magnesium (1966), phosphate rock (1980), potash (1967), rare earth metals (1984), tin (1945), titanium (1964), and zinc (1969)" (from Richard Heinberg's The End of Growth[1])

I've explored the concept of decoupling in greater length using Wolfram+Alpha data to show the relationship between energy use and GDP for the G8 nations plus China, India, and Brazil, as well as global growth, in the periods of 2000 - 2010, 1990 - 2012, and 1980-2012 (not all data available for all periods, though the 2000 - 2010 data are complete for all nations analyzed). While there's some sign of very weak decoupling of energy and GDP growth, principally in Japan and the USA, for global GDP growth, there's a very strong relationship between GDP and energy usage, and both have been increasing. With limited exceptions, global per capita energy use has also been increasing.

http://www.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1vlksg/economic...

As I write this, I'm listening to a news story that the IEA has announced that US oil consumption, flat for years, is up 2%

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/world/rising-demand-oil-gr...

2. The second major problem is that the so-called Demographic Transition which Gates and Hans Rosling like to trumpet is little more than a largely unexplained phenomenon observed in some but not all data series. Tom "Do the Math" Murphy, UCSD physics professor, has specifically looked at this with regards to oil states, and makes the observation that "surplus energy makes babies"[2]. This is significant for two reasons: it means that the demographic transition isn't being observed in all countries, and it means that population growth, and hence domestic energy consumption growth, is highest in the major oil exporting nations. Growing domestic consumption means reduced availability of energy for export markets -- a phenomenon known as the "export lands model". Other research suggests that the causality link between development rates and birth rates is less clear than popularly portrayed[3].

I could bore (or terrify) you with numerous other challenges: flat or falling agricultural productivity, EROEI deficiencies in virtually every non-fossil energy alternative, pandemics risks. There's a reason I don't get invited to parties much .... But I think these two will do. While I have respect for some of Bill Gates's work (and I'm by no means an uncritical fan of his), his optimism here seems misplaced and founded on a very incomplete portrayal of the situation.

____________________________

Notes:

1. Sources: http://minerals.usgs.gov/ds/2005/140/ and http://www.culturechange.org/cms/content/view/597/2/

2. "The Real Population Problem" http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2013/09/the-real-populat...

3. "Revisiting demographic transition: correlation and causation in the rate of development and fertility decline." http://www.iussp.org/sites/default/files/event_call_for_pape...

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Access to contraceptives allows people who do not intend to have children, but engage in sex, to remain childless. No access to contraceptives means that people who do not intend to have children, but engage in sex, will have children. These children will be unintended or unwanted and may not be cared for either through disinterest or lack of ability to provide for them. A child who grows up in that sort of circumsta…

"A child who grows up in that sort of circumstance is not kept safe, may succumb to disease, may spread disease, will not be educated, and will have difficulty providing for themselves." A person's life is far more than just how they start out. Many people have started in situations like this and have gone on to have wonderful lives. Many have even changed the world. This alone isn't enough to convince me that we sho…

I have been married for about 20 years now (with a little hiatus between marriages). Had we not used any contraceptive methods, I'd have about 20 children. While it could be argued that propagating my genes would be in the best interest of mankind, I think that 20 kids would be way too much. Of the various contraceptive methods we used, every one of them prevented fecundation and, therefore, not a single life was lost to them. This is not destruction of life, but the means to prevent its creation.

People are entitled their own religious ideas, but nobody has the right to impose those values on someone else. If giving access to contraceptives to someone who wants them will make lives better, I'm in favor.

Having a larger number of humans disregarding our ability to feed and educate them is cruelty, pure and simple. It's not investing in human potential unless you are able to ensure all of them live to their fullest potential.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#209
post #193

It's an excellent piece. I'll admit to being a bit confused by the assertion, however: > "letting children die now so they don’t starve later—doesn’t actually work, thank goodness. It may be counterintuitive, but the countries with the most deaths have among the fastest-growing populations in the world. This is because the women in these countries tend to have the most births, too." I spent five months in Kenya, and…

Overpopulation can also result from simple trade. NYC and generally the entire US eastern seaboard are overpopulated by your definition.

Or virtually all of the Persian Gulf. Some of the fastest-growing populations, in what's empty desert without even sufficient water for cities let alone agriculture.

The economist's answer is that these regions have economic outputs (financial wizardry, advanced manufacturing, tourism, oil) which the rest of the world wants, and the rest of the world (which in the case of the Atlantic seaboard is largely the US's own inland agricultural regions -- breadbasket to the world) is willing to exchange its agricultural produce for those goods.

There's a difference between economic self-sufficiency and ecological self-sufficiency. Arguments can be made over which is preferable. Comparative advantage means that the economic argument leads to greater overall population and productivity, sustainability means the ecological argument leads to greater sustainability.

There's also that little matter that agriculture has largely transformed into a factory system for converting petrochemical energy to food energy via modest sunlight inputs.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A child who grows up in that sort of circumstance is not kept safe, may succumb to disease, may spread disease, will not be educated, and will have difficulty providing for themselves." A person's life is far more than just how they start out. Many people have started in situations like this and have gone on to have wonderful lives. Many have even changed the world. This alone isn't enough to convince me that we sho…

I have been married for about 20 years now (with a little hiatus between marriages). Had we not used any contraceptive methods, I'd have about 20 children. While it could be argued that propagating my genes would be in the best interest of mankind, I think that 20 kids would be way too much. Of the various contraceptive methods we used, every one of them prevented fecundation and, therefore, not a single life was los…

"People are entitled their own religious ideas, but nobody has the right to impose those values on someone else."

Actually we do in most democracies, just in the form of a vote. The reason behind our votes are almost always "religious", even if they aren't explicitly so. For example, the statement: "If giving access to contraceptives to someone who wants them will make lives better, I'm in favor." That's based on a belief that you hold, that you can't prove one way or another.

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