Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Is it not rational, in fact extremely smart, to have a preference toward electing women into office, when all other factors are more or less equal or less important? If one assumes falsehoods, many irrational decisions becomes rational. For example, like the assumption that a male politician doesn't care about women's issues. In fact, I live in a country with 40% of the parliament being women, even though 60% of the…
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you lack empathy for the challenges faced by women in Silicon Valley because you're a white male whose local culture is globally famous for being tolerant and inclusive? You haven't experienced the problems personally, and you probably haven't even seen them locally. But they're real.
Announcing the Female Founders Conference (March 1)
211–220 of 295 posts
Re: Announcing the Female Founders Conference (March 1)
#212Isn't that illegal? Discrimination based on gender, which the organizer openly admits to: "We want to give priority to women". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964
Re: Announcing the Female Founders Conference (March 1)
#213How sexist.... I am offended. When was the Male Founders Conference again???
Re: Announcing the Female Founders Conference (March 1)
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
I highly doubt you engaged these issues critically if you seriously don't believe that most institutional structures are dominated by men. Great, student bodies have slightly more women than men. However the vast majority of professors, researchers, and administrators are men. It's the positions of power being dominated by men that makes the institution for men. Much like the positions of power in politics and busine…
I didn't say that most institutional structures aren't dominated by men. I don't know whether "most" are or aren't -- neither do you. If you figure out a way to quantify that, let me know. Seems like a research grant in the making. I do know, however, that "every other organization is a men's organization" is a ridiculous statement. Every other organization ? Seriously? In order for that to be true, "men's organizati…
It's only provably false because you're making a semantic argument against it, sticking on the strict definition of "every" rather than interpreting it as heard by others.
> First off, very few men have access to those positions of power.
Right. That's a problem, too. It's just not a feminist problem.
> Second, much of feminism ignores the question of why one-to-one gender representation is desirable in the first place for each and every position of power.
> Well, the man is still the most objectively skilled person for the job maybe you should figure out how to build control mechanisms that prevent male ideologies from perpetuating insidious effects throughout the system, rather than just scream about how men should be barred from the position.
And step one to figuring out how to build said control mechanisms is explaining to people that they should help out. To which there is always the response that there isn't anything wrong in the first place and look, women are underrepresented because they aren't supposed to be in positions of power anyways so why change anything?
These conversations are necessarily circular because you can't talk with everyone about everything all the time. You're always going to rehash conversations periodically, and one-to-one representation is a fairly concrete fact-based grounding point for such conversations. You're going to have to explain the benefits of functional programming to every fresh-faced only-learned-Java college graduate over and over again until you change the underlying system to explain functional programming to them before you have to.
> Third, there is the question of whether or not these inequalities are systemic because of male oppression or female behavior. It is likely a mix of the two, but feminists completely discount the latter.
Surely not EVERY feminist! That statement is provably false and anyone caught saying it should be instantly discredited.
> There are innumerable other issues I could list but what's common to all of them, in my view, is that they focus so intently on the end goal of elevating women's power status that they bulldoze over all other considerations indiscriminately.
Yes, that's true. This is why I, for instance, have stopped arguing with atheists or privacy advocates. They're so focused on the end goal that they bulldoze over all other considerations indiscriminately. That's one of those costs you pay for people being human and actually caring about the issues they fight for.
Another cost is that, here in reality, if you don't take a polarizing stance, it's incredibly hard to provide compromises when it comes down to actually deciding policy. And if you take a polarizing stance long enough, you start fully committing to it rather than holding it for the sake of making change. If you take a realistic stance, then when you compromise, you start losing the things that are necessary, too. Both strategies are bad. You have to get insanely lucky for everything to work out well and crystallize over the course of generations.
There is no right answer. Thinking you have the right answer virtually guarantees that you're bulldozing over someone else's considerations. Failing to think you have the right answer pretty much means no one will listen to you. Fucked either way, so you fuck it up until it's less bad.
Re: Announcing the Female Founders Conference (March 1)
#215Even as someone who believes in the importance of gender equality, as a male co-founder, I acknowledge that I do have subconscious biases that need to be checked periodically (or better, constantly). When there are more female founders, and more of a presence of female leadership, I believe those biases (and the biases of other men in our community) will decline over time. Having a safe space where supportive discussions may lead to success for more female founders is a great place to start.
Re: Announcing the Female Founders Conference (March 1)
#216I'm assuming some HNers are soon to arrive saying things like "why does it matter that a founder is a female?", "why make an excluding event? isn't it sexism all the same", "imagine if someone make a 'male founders conference'?" I would like to ask you to think for a moment, before raising this concerns (I am not bothering here to debate with haters, only with those who are genuinely concerned that this might sexism…
> This is no such case for female founders. Here we have a much simples issue: stigmatization. I disagree. I might be in the minority but in the places I've worked in tech no one cares - at least as far as I can tell - what your gender is, it's how well you do the job. What I do see a lot of is women who are capable but not interested in STEM. Not because of some kind of social stigma, they just don't care about it.…
I think the general assumption for women promoting these types of events is that while this statement may be true, it's not because of an inherent difference in women and men. The difference is due to social and cultural conditioning, not because of any biological difference.
Re: Announcing the Female Founders Conference (March 1)
#217I'm assuming some HNers are soon to arrive saying things like "why does it matter that a founder is a female?", "why make an excluding event? isn't it sexism all the same", "imagine if someone make a 'male founders conference'?" I would like to ask you to think for a moment, before raising this concerns (I am not bothering here to debate with haters, only with those who are genuinely concerned that this might sexism…
Did anyone stop to think that woman generally just have differing interests and natural skills than men? Why is there so much emphasis on women being the same as men in everything? I don't see campaigns to get more women interested in auto repair or plumbing.
Re: Announcing the Female Founders Conference (March 1)
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
So your issue with feminism is essentially that it's wrong for a women's movement to pursue women's issues? Nothing about feminism is orthogonal to addressing the needs of men. In fact there is a lot of feminist theory exploring pretty much every single issue you listed, and if you did actually engage the issue critically you'd probably know that.
Hello, Just wanted to tell you that your comments of "if you did actually engage the issue critically..." are obnoxious. Two honest people can read the same literature, learn from the same folks, etc, and come to different conclusions. You're insinuating that if obstacle1 disagrees with you then they are either ignorant or lying about their experience. Not cool.
Re: Announcing the Female Founders Conference (March 1)
#219I'm assuming some HNers are soon to arrive saying things like "why does it matter that a founder is a female?", "why make an excluding event? isn't it sexism all the same", "imagine if someone make a 'male founders conference'?" I would like to ask you to think for a moment, before raising this concerns (I am not bothering here to debate with haters, only with those who are genuinely concerned that this might sexism…
HN readers in these gender discussions are so outright condescending, hateful, and knowingly, deliberately unreasonable-- not to mention "othering"-- it makes me consider never coming to this website ever again. Thank you for being a voice of reason, even though doing so can be incredibly frustrating in its fruitlessness sometimes.
Seriously, wtf people?
>Thank you for being a voice of reason
Oh, I thought you were referring to the disgusting tripe you replied to. Wow, amazing how people can view things differently huh?
Re: Announcing the Female Founders Conference (March 1)
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
So your issue with feminism is essentially that it's wrong for a women's movement to pursue women's issues? Nothing about feminism is orthogonal to addressing the needs of men. In fact there is a lot of feminist theory exploring pretty much every single issue you listed, and if you did actually engage the issue critically you'd probably know that.
Sometimes I think HN has a 2-post memory or something. To remind you, I originally responded to a poster who claimed to "finally understand" feminism when a teacher said, in response to "why can't there be men's organizations", that "every other organization is a men's organization". I'm reacting to that specific kind of feminism, which prohibits addressing men's issues on the assumption that all men are already take…
99.999% of feminists would agree that there are institutions dominated by women, they just happen to be the hyper-minority. You're doing exactly what's done every time a feminist discussion comes up, deliberately misrepresenting feminism in an attempt to discredit it.
Please show me these feminists that want to prohibit men from addressing men's issues. Or provide a shred of evidence for any of your claims. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but don't post tired unsubstantiated bullshit and pretend you've critically engaged the subject.