2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor • Hacker News Board

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#41

Post by ori_b » Tue, Jan 21, 2014, 6:47 PM UTC

chrisgd wrote: post #22

spodek wrote: post #14

His third point, "Saving lives leads to overpopulation," is a weird straw man. I've never heard of anyone ever suggesting letting suffering children die as some way to keep the population low. He brings up Malthus as another straw man. I'm not sure the point he's trying to make. To stop people from stopping people from saving people's lives? I think he's trying to suggest that the planet has too many people on it but…

It is sort of strange. The letter also talks about looking around and seeing a bunch of middle class people and assuming that no one is poor anymore. If I can't see it, it doesn't exist. . .

Where did he say that there was no poverty? "Look at the progress we've made" is a far cry from "Ok folks, we're done here".

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#42

Post by nollidge » Tue, Jan 21, 2014, 6:48 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #28

btian wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mind explaining why? Providing contraception (especially condoms) can prevent STDs in addition to preventing unwanted child birth.

I can't. Not because I don't have legit reasoning (I'm convinced I do). But for a far more interesting reason: I'm one of the 0% in this community who hold this position. This means there's no chance for a fair debate. Socially speaking, I think this is far more interesting than my disagreement itself. EDIT: Ignore this, I have already responded. See the rest of the thread.

I assure you it's greater than 0.49%. It's not like programming is devoid of conversative Christians [0], for example.

[0] not that you're necessarily in that demographic, but it's probably the one most likely to oppose contraceptives.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#43

Post by JumpCrisscross » Tue, Jan 21, 2014, 6:51 PM UTC

spodek wrote: post #14

His third point, "Saving lives leads to overpopulation," is a weird straw man. I've never heard of anyone ever suggesting letting suffering children die as some way to keep the population low. He brings up Malthus as another straw man. I'm not sure the point he's trying to make. To stop people from stopping people from saving people's lives? I think he's trying to suggest that the planet has too many people on it but…

I remember raising money for a UN programme that provides neonatal care to African mothers. The programme has an excellent track record of reducing infant mortality in newborns' first thirty days, when they are most vulnerable.

A common form of pushback I received was along the lines of "why save them now if it just leads to them starving later." I even had one Pacific Northwest environmentalist openly challenge the programme's net benefit on environmental grounds, though most dressed it as a chicken-or-egg dilemma between neonatal support and general poverty reduction. Still, a spade is a spade - the concern that saving people now will put undue strain on finite resources tomorrow is real.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#44

Post by pathy » Tue, Jan 21, 2014, 6:52 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #28

btian wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mind explaining why? Providing contraception (especially condoms) can prevent STDs in addition to preventing unwanted child birth.

I can't. Not because I don't have legit reasoning (I'm convinced I do). But for a far more interesting reason: I'm one of the 0% in this community who hold this position. This means there's no chance for a fair debate. Socially speaking, I think this is far more interesting than my disagreement itself. EDIT: Ignore this, I have already responded. See the rest of the thread.

No, you are making your opinion seem far worse by not even bothering to explain your reasoning.

You make it sound like you would be a victim. HN may be biased in it's views by and large but if you don't even try to explain yourself, you give the impression that you are even more ignorant of others views than the ~100% are of yours.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#45

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 21, 2014, 6:52 PM UTC

ubercore wrote: post #36

sdegutis wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My line of reasoning behind my position is complex and can't be simplified into a bite-sized form that can be defended in a HN thread. Especially considering my original point: I'm one of the 0%; there's no chance for a fair debate.

I think it's fair to expect at least an attempt, given that you felt strongly enough to post your first comment. Without context, it boils down to "I have an opinion." Not surprising people would ask you to expand on that.

[deleted]

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#46

Post by ColinCochrane » Tue, Jan 21, 2014, 6:52 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #28

btian wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mind explaining why? Providing contraception (especially condoms) can prevent STDs in addition to preventing unwanted child birth.

I can't. Not because I don't have legit reasoning (I'm convinced I do). But for a far more interesting reason: I'm one of the 0% in this community who hold this position. This means there's no chance for a fair debate. Socially speaking, I think this is far more interesting than my disagreement itself. EDIT: Ignore this, I have already responded. See the rest of the thread.

There is no chance for fair debate if you avoid it because you assume there won't be a fair debate.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#47

Post by mikeash » Tue, Jan 21, 2014, 6:53 PM UTC

quinnchr wrote: post #21

mikeash wrote: post #7

This is a fascinating letter that helps combat some of the "doom and gloom" that's so prevalent in... well, everything. I kept coming back to one thought while reading this: why are people so mistaken about Africa in particular? The article covers misconceptions all over the place, but it keeps coming back to Africa, and it seems that the disparity between what people think and what's actually the case is far larger…

This is an interesting campaign trying to tackle those exact issues of perception: http://www.africafornorway.no/

That is truly excellent.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#48

Post by dylandrop » Tue, Jan 21, 2014, 6:53 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #28

btian wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mind explaining why? Providing contraception (especially condoms) can prevent STDs in addition to preventing unwanted child birth.

I can't. Not because I don't have legit reasoning (I'm convinced I do). But for a far more interesting reason: I'm one of the 0% in this community who hold this position. This means there's no chance for a fair debate. Socially speaking, I think this is far more interesting than my disagreement itself. EDIT: Ignore this, I have already responded. See the rest of the thread.

So you're saying it's interesting that you assume your point will be shot down? Assuming the reception of your viewpoints HN does nothing except suggest that you don't really have any reasoning at all, but want to frame yourself as a victim.

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#49

Post by gnerd » Tue, Jan 21, 2014, 6:54 PM UTC

hawkharris wrote: post #23

The United States' news coverage concerning Africa perpetuates these myths. It seems as if 95% of news stories focus on poverty, war and chaos in the continent. They rarely go so far as to differentiate among countries. In fact, many African nations are great centers for innovation. Kenya and Nigeria spring to mind for higher education and mobile computing. As a way of confronting condescending stereotypes, I have of…

> because education in some Nigerian cities is far superior to most U.S. high schools.

Do you know that for sure though? Isn't it possible that you are drawing a conclusion on a far away place based on some events/cultural ideas that are provocative enough to make it to your screen as a topic of interest?

Isn't that the same thing you are complaining about, just in reverse?

Re: 2014 Gates Annual Letter: Myths that block progress for the poor

#50

Post by macspoofing » Tue, Jan 21, 2014, 6:54 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #5

"Creating societies where people enjoy basic health, relative prosperity, fundamental equality, and access to contraceptives is the only way to secure a sustainable world." I suppose I'm one of the 0% (rounded) who disagree with putting contraception in this list. When this gets thrown around, it makes me feel like an outsider in a programming community where I otherwise agree with probably everything else.

>I suppose I'm one of the 0% (rounded) who disagree with putting contraception in this list.

That's because access to contraceptives has been shown to provide a wide range of benefits. From reducing poverty, prevention of STDs, increasing maternal health (from unsafe abortions, and increasing inter-pregnancy interval), reinforcing women's rights and allowing for proper family planning.

>When this gets thrown around, it makes me feel like an outsider in a programming community where I otherwise agree with probably everything else.

You should, because there really is no downside. The only objections to contraceptive access are religious in nature, and we can safely discard those. It's kind of like being on the Jenny McCarthy side in the vaccine 'debate' - sometimes you're just wrong.