Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Bitcoin Matters

mobile.nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

1–10 of 268 posts

Re: Why Bitcoin Matters

#2

Post by untilHellbanned »

"Finally, I’d like to address the claim made by some critics that Bitcoin is a haven for bad behavior..."

Just need more examples like Dogecoin funding the Jamaican Bobsled team[1] to keep the narrative going in the right direction.

[1]http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/20/jamaican-b...

Re: Why Bitcoin Matters

#4

Post by easy_rider »

>The criticism that merchants will not accept Bitcoin due to its volatility is also incorrect. Bitcoin can be used entirely as a payment system; merchants do not need to hold any Bitcoin currency or be exposed to Bitcoin volatility at any time. Any consumer or merchant can trade in and out of Bitcoin and other currencies any time they want.

I don't understand this. Someone is taking the risk right now. Currently it's the exchanges and merchants directly, because they rely on the exchanges. With high volatility merchants wouldn't be getting about the same amount in 1 hour turnover time right now. Everything in the process should be synced according to current exchange rates. Obviously technology makes this possible, but the technical implementation effort would be huge for widespread adoption.

BTC as it stands now seems to be somewhat stabilizing, but anything is still possible until it becomes more widespread and trusted. Kind of paradoxical.

Re: Why Bitcoin Matters

#5

Post by candybar »

The part about bitcoin entirely as a payment system makes no sense, because both the consumer and the merchant need an existing payment system, to convert into and out of bitcoin for this to work, in which case bitcoin is just a middleman doing no work. I suppose some payment systems are localized and bitcoin can work as a global bridge, but that seems like a trivial legal hack that will be shut down soon.

Re: Why Bitcoin Matters

#6

Post by eatitraw »

easy_rider wrote: post #4

>The criticism that merchants will not accept Bitcoin due to its volatility is also incorrect. Bitcoin can be used entirely as a payment system; merchants do not need to hold any Bitcoin currency or be exposed to Bitcoin volatility at any time. Any consumer or merchant can trade in and out of Bitcoin and other currencies any time they want. I don't understand this. Someone is taking the risk right now. Currently it's…

> I don't understand this. Someone is taking the risk right now.

Correct.

> Currently it's the exchanges and merchants directly, because they rely on the exchanges.

Incorrect. There is the solution: https://bitpay.com/ , which automatically does conversion for a small fee. Buyers pay in bitcoin, but sellers receives fiat money(e.g. USD). The risk is taken by bitpay, sellers always receive fixed amount in fiat money, and buyers have the window of 15 minutes to make BTC payment.

Re: Why Bitcoin Matters

#7

Post by tptacek »

eatitraw wrote: post #6
easy_rider wrote: post #4

>The criticism that merchants will not accept Bitcoin due to its volatility is also incorrect. Bitcoin can be used entirely as a payment system; merchants do not need to hold any Bitcoin currency or be exposed to Bitcoin volatility at any time. Any consumer or merchant can trade in and out of Bitcoin and other currencies any time they want. I don't understand this. Someone is taking the risk right now. Currently it's…

> I don't understand this. Someone is taking the risk right now. Correct. > Currently it's the exchanges and merchants directly, because they rely on the exchanges. Incorrect. There is the solution: https://bitpay.com/ , which automatically does conversion for a small fee. Buyers pay in bitcoin, but sellers receives fiat money(e.g. USD). The risk is taken by bitpay, sellers always receive fixed amount in fiat money,…

"Fiat money" is as I've seen it used a political message, used most often to assumptively introduce the idea that government-backed currency is suspect. But fiat currencies are simply currencies that aren't backed by collateral. To the extent that you believe it's a currency and not a tradable instrument that happens to have interesting barter and liquidity characteristics (right now), Bitcoin is a fiat currency as well.

Re: Why Bitcoin Matters

#8

Post by alextingle »

candybar wrote: post #5

The part about bitcoin entirely as a payment system makes no sense, because both the consumer and the merchant need an existing payment system, to convert into and out of bitcoin for this to work, in which case bitcoin is just a middleman doing no work. I suppose some payment systems are localized and bitcoin can work as a global bridge, but that seems like a trivial legal hack that will be shut down soon.

The merchant needs a payment system that they trust, and the customer needs a payment system that they trust. But the payment systems don't really need to know or trust each other. He's saying that Bitcoin turns payment from a many-to-many problem, into a one-to-many problem.

Re: Why Bitcoin Matters

#9

Post by jt2190 » 

  > The criticism that merchants will not accept Bitcoin 
  > because of its volatility is also incorrect. Bitcoin can be 
  > used entirely as a payment system; merchants do not need to 
  > hold any Bitcoin currency or be exposed to Bitcoin 
  > volatility at any time. Any consumer or merchant can trade 
  > in and out of Bitcoin and other currencies 
  > any time they want.
I'm having trouble understanding this point of view because it implies that someone, somewhere is always willing to buy in to BTC, no matter the circumstances. So, two questions:

1. Is BTC somehow immune to currency crises like many government-backed currencies have experienced? 2. If BTC is not immune to crises, have any parties emerged that will act to "defend" BTC in a crisis?

Re: Why Bitcoin Matters

#10

Post by candybar »

alextingle wrote: post #8
candybar wrote: post #5

The part about bitcoin entirely as a payment system makes no sense, because both the consumer and the merchant need an existing payment system, to convert into and out of bitcoin for this to work, in which case bitcoin is just a middleman doing no work. I suppose some payment systems are localized and bitcoin can work as a global bridge, but that seems like a trivial legal hack that will be shut down soon.

The merchant needs a payment system that they trust, and the customer needs a payment system that they trust. But the payment systems don't really need to know or trust each other . He's saying that Bitcoin turns payment from a many-to-many problem, into a one-to-many problem.

Except, you're not getting around the problem here either - I need to find a real money payment system that the bitcoin exchange and I both trust and and the merchant needs to find a real money payment system that they and their bitcoin exchange both trust. You're doubling the problem no matter how you look at it, because the problem of you sending money to the bitcoin exchange is the exact same problem as you sending money to the merchant.
Post reply on HN