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Ukraine Tracks Protesters Through Cellphones

nytimes.com

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Re: Ukraine Tracks Protesters Through Cellphones

#11

Post by smnrchrds »

During protests after 2009 Iran presidential election there was a lot of concern that the government will use this sort of technology to find protesters. Some people advised that one should remove the battery altogether near protest centers, because putting the cell phone in airplane or even turning it off wouldn't prevent the telecommunication companies from tracking it. The reason they provided was simple: if it doesn't transmit any data while it's turned off, how does it say a different message to the caller when the called number is turned off vs when battery is removed.

I mostly forgot about it until I saw this article. Anyone here care to explain if this is true?

Re: Ukraine Tracks Protesters Through Cellphones

#12

Post by zzzcpan »

superuser2 wrote: post #5
strathmeyer wrote: post #4

The website says that I have already read my 10 free articles this month and need to pay money to read this one. This has been happening a lot with HackerNews links for me. Do I have a virus, or are you supposed to be rich to post here?

The New York Times is professional journalism. You don't need to be rich to afford $3.75/week. This is about $200/yr, on the order of the price of a print subscription. Working class families have been reading newspapers for decades. Occasionally we find that professional, full-time newsrooms produce better content than the blogosphere. Producing that content took a staff of educated, full-time professionals with fam…

But I don't like nytimes and almost never read their articles, just looking if it's of any interest to me, because it was posted here.

Re: Ukraine Tracks Protesters Through Cellphones

#14

Post by roin »

psykovsky wrote: post #6
superuser2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The New York Times is professional journalism. You don't need to be rich to afford $3.75/week. This is about $200/yr, on the order of the price of a print subscription. Working class families have been reading newspapers for decades. Occasionally we find that professional, full-time newsrooms produce better content than the blogosphere. Producing that content took a staff of educated, full-time professionals with fam…

Of course, because digital edition has distribution costs just like printed editions.

It's not about distribution. Much like ordering a book from Amazon, buying software, or going to see a movie, distribution is typically not the most relevant cost.

I think the NYTimes is one of the best bargains out there, and lucky for those who don't pay the benefits spillover to other journalism, especially the blog/twitter world.

Re: Ukraine Tracks Protesters Through Cellphones

#15

Post by roin »

adventured wrote: post #10
psykovsky wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, because digital edition has distribution costs just like printed editions.

If you get the same news, and you were happy with what you were paying to get high quality news (you're not buying a sheet of paper, you're buying the news), then what's the problem? Why should moving to digital mean reducing the price versus print? Perhaps the NY Times should keep the margin difference as profit, helping to restore their financial condition from the recent disaster it has been, so they don't have to…

Agreed, and this group as much as any should understand that just because the product is made of bits and can be distributed virtually free, it should not be free of cost.

Just like any good software company, the NYTimes should be thinking about their price strategy in a more complex way than cost plus. And I'm sure they are.

Re: Ukraine Tracks Protesters Through Cellphones

#17

Post by huckleberryfinn »

zzzcpan wrote: post #7
strathmeyer wrote: post #4

The website says that I have already read my 10 free articles this month and need to pay money to read this one. This has been happening a lot with HackerNews links for me. Do I have a virus, or are you supposed to be rich to post here?

Sometimes it works in private window. But I agree, this is ridiculous, I cannot access most of the links to nytimes either, especially blog ones, even in private window.

Just add this script as a bookmarklet (drag it to your bookmark bar) and click it whenever you get a paywall message:

javascript:%20window.location%20=%20window.location.protocol%20+%20'//'%20+%20window.location.hostname%20+%20window.location.pathname%20+%20'?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes';

PS: Support journalism if you have the money to do so!

Re: Ukraine Tracks Protesters Through Cellphones

#18

Post by Mikeb85 »

coldtea wrote: post #16

As if only Ukraine does that. How about OWS protesters?

When the US does it = good.

When a country we don't agree politically with does it = bad.

Likewise protesters attacking police with Molotov cocktails, charging their lines with farm equipment and torching police vehicles would elicit a fairly strong reaction from any Western government, yet the Ukrainian government is demonized...

Re: Ukraine Tracks Protesters Through Cellphones

#19

Post by conductor »

smnrchrds wrote: post #11

During protests after 2009 Iran presidential election there was a lot of concern that the government will use this sort of technology to find protesters. Some people advised that one should remove the battery altogether near protest centers, because putting the cell phone in airplane or even turning it off wouldn't prevent the telecommunication companies from tracking it. The reason they provided was simple: if it do…

When you are turning off the cell phone it sends a signal to the operator (graceful shut down) so the operator knows that you turned off the phone. When you remove the battery the phone has no time to send a message to the operator about the phone going offline so the operator doesn't know for sure whether it's turned off or it is out of the towers range at this moment.

Of course this doesn't mean that they can't track turned off phones, it's still technically possible (while the battery is there).

Re: Ukraine Tracks Protesters Through Cellphones

#20

Post by Crito »

conductor wrote: post #19
smnrchrds wrote: post #11

During protests after 2009 Iran presidential election there was a lot of concern that the government will use this sort of technology to find protesters. Some people advised that one should remove the battery altogether near protest centers, because putting the cell phone in airplane or even turning it off wouldn't prevent the telecommunication companies from tracking it. The reason they provided was simple: if it do…

When you are turning off the cell phone it sends a signal to the operator (graceful shut down) so the operator knows that you turned off the phone. When you remove the battery the phone has no time to send a message to the operator about the phone going offline so the operator doesn't know for sure whether it's turned off or it is out of the towers range at this moment. Of course this doesn't mean that they can't tra…

It would also presumably mean that the government could compile a list of cellphones that turned off during the protests, while not located at but rather near the protests.

To a sane government, this information wouldn't be of much use. To a crazed paranoid government going on purges and witchhunts, this could be all the information they 'need' to find somebody suspect.

Of course if you pull the battery, they would also notice the phone dropping off the network (though it would be unclear what the cause was). To a crazed government, the difference might not be too important.

If you are ever in the sort of situation where any of this might become a concern, I recommend leaving the phone at home, sitting comfortably on your couch, turned on with the TV on. Of course this precludes using the phone in an emergency, so 'burner' phones with removable batteries may become valued.

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