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How the Internet Ruined San Francisco (1999)

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Re: How the Internet Ruined San Francisco (1999)

#31

Post by throwaway_93315 »

pikachu_is_cool wrote: post #3

I grew up in the Silicon Valley. One of the riches places in the world. The tech hub. Engineers. Soccer moms. Workaholic dads. The sound of leafblowers 24/7. No parties, no night life. Work work work. Money money money. Get a 2400 on your SAT. Get straight A's and go to UC Berkeley, and if you don't go there you're a failure. Go to the gym every day at 7AM. Eat healthy organic fruits. Everything you could ever possib…

I grew up in an abusive household with alcoholic parents. I was so scared of violence I couldn't sleep for years without my shoes on in case I had to jump out of the window and run for my life. I remember having to clean my mothers' blood up off the walls of our living room because her crackhead boyfriend took a hammer to her head, and the taste of government cheese (surprisingly tasty), and being so emotionally withdrawn that people assumed I was a mute.

Please stop complaining.

Re: How the Internet Ruined San Francisco (1999)

#32

Post by pikachu_is_cool »

brianchu wrote: post #29
pikachu_is_cool wrote: post #3

I grew up in the Silicon Valley. One of the riches places in the world. The tech hub. Engineers. Soccer moms. Workaholic dads. The sound of leafblowers 24/7. No parties, no night life. Work work work. Money money money. Get a 2400 on your SAT. Get straight A's and go to UC Berkeley, and if you don't go there you're a failure. Go to the gym every day at 7AM. Eat healthy organic fruits. Everything you could ever possib…

It's a matter of perspective. The grass is always greener on the other side, and I think it's unrealistic to pine for an idealistic childhood. I was born and raised in Palo Alto and I go to UC Berkeley now. I spend a lot of time in SF. A lot of what you said relates to my childhood. But a lot of what happened was the result of my choices. I love technology and I love the culture here. One thing that helped me before…

It worked out for you because you fit the mold (perfectly, if I might add). Most other kids don't fit that mold. And for those kids it can be a living hell, look at the Gunn suicides.

Edit: I should have mentioned I'm referring to Cupertino/Mountain View/Sunnyvale area. I don't really have anything to say about SF and Santa Cruz, they sound like nice places to live.

Re: How the Internet Ruined San Francisco (1999)

#33

Post by kyro »

throwaway_93315 wrote: post #31
pikachu_is_cool wrote: post #3

I grew up in the Silicon Valley. One of the riches places in the world. The tech hub. Engineers. Soccer moms. Workaholic dads. The sound of leafblowers 24/7. No parties, no night life. Work work work. Money money money. Get a 2400 on your SAT. Get straight A's and go to UC Berkeley, and if you don't go there you're a failure. Go to the gym every day at 7AM. Eat healthy organic fruits. Everything you could ever possib…

I grew up in an abusive household with alcoholic parents. I was so scared of violence I couldn't sleep for years without my shoes on in case I had to jump out of the window and run for my life. I remember having to clean my mothers' blood up off the walls of our living room because her crackhead boyfriend took a hammer to her head, and the taste of government cheese (surprisingly tasty), and being so emotionally with…

And there are severely starved and malnourished African children with bloated bellies whose rotting corpses will serve as feeding grounds for the vultures that watched and patiently waited.

Your problems do not invalidate his.

Re: How the Internet Ruined San Francisco (1999)

#35

Post by marvin »

steele wrote: post #23
pikachu_is_cool wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you can take my place.

You know that I can't. And you also know that what you've described is a series of opportunities presented as a burden.

pikachu_is_cool points the finger at something which doesn't receive nearly enough attention in the tech circles on the US West Coast: Chasing work, marketable skills, money and "success" at the detriment of everything else: Work-life balance, healthy relationships, enjoyable hobbies and overall quality of life. People are obviously free to do whatever they want with their lives, but from my perspective the status quo in the Silicon Valley startup culture is very destructive for the mental health and overall long-term happiness of its members.

Whenever I read a story on HN about 55-100 hour workweeks and lots of comments making this seem like something which is sane and healthy, only taking vacations when you are between jobs, being a serial entrepeneur chasing failed venture after failed venture with the hope of eventually striking it rich, prioritizing personal relationships and interaction with friends behind your company's interests and relentlessly using any (rare) spare time to work on your "startup" or learn skills other people will pay you money for, I cringe. I will never take a regular job in an environment like this. It would fuck up my mental health in less than a year, and I am very surprised that others don't see this. I can only describe it as a collective blindness for some very important parts of life.

There is certainly plenty of opportunity in one of the biggest tech booms in world history. But it's not opportunity that comes without a big human cost, and this side of the story doesn't receive nearly enough attention. When work and success is lauded as the virtues above all, other valuable things will suffer. Most people aren't cut out for this kind of lifestyle, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Re: How the Internet Ruined San Francisco (1999)

#36

Post by kyro »

pikachu_is_cool wrote: post #3

I grew up in the Silicon Valley. One of the riches places in the world. The tech hub. Engineers. Soccer moms. Workaholic dads. The sound of leafblowers 24/7. No parties, no night life. Work work work. Money money money. Get a 2400 on your SAT. Get straight A's and go to UC Berkeley, and if you don't go there you're a failure. Go to the gym every day at 7AM. Eat healthy organic fruits. Everything you could ever possib…

Hey, I can relate. I'm betting you grew up under really traditional foreign parents who raised you in a very high-pressure, high-stress environment that only offered support if you followed the rules and fulfilled the expectations. I did. And I totally agree with your last sentence.

My advice is to start figuring out what it is you want to do and sketch a plan to get to that place. If your parents/community are anything like mine, you'll get a lot of hate and no support, but pushing through it is worth it. Find what you enjoy now because you don't want to find yourself 10 years from now deeply regretting the fact that you followed the mold and did what everyone expected of you.

You won't be a failure if you pursue a different path. Don't believe that because it'll paralyze you. And if you don't get a 2400 and don't get into UC Berkeley, what's the worst that'll happen? Chances are you won't become homeless.

Re: How the Internet Ruined San Francisco (1999)

#37

Post by tachyonbeam »

Naritai wrote: post #21
smoyer wrote: post #19

I don't want to sound callous but ... market forces shape and reshape cities all the time. When the facets of city-life in San Francisco that initially drew people fade away, people will flock somewhere else and the rents will stagnate or reverse. And if San Francisco is losing its allure as an artist's hub, perhaps other places (such as downtown Detroit) are compensating? I live in a reasonably affluent smaller city…

What seems ridiculous to me is that the city that's absorbing the 'artists' is... Oakland! 20-minutes, or one BART stop away! That sounds fine to me. As SF gets bigger, let people overflow into Oakland. I don't see what's so bad about that. The only people who are really concerned about this are the ones to insist that SF and Oakland are totally different cities. Come on guys, they've been the same economic region fo…

Yeah, let's pave over that lake and call it a deal.

Re: How the Internet Ruined San Francisco (1999)

#38

Post by tansey »

pikachu_is_cool wrote: post #32
brianchu wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a matter of perspective. The grass is always greener on the other side, and I think it's unrealistic to pine for an idealistic childhood. I was born and raised in Palo Alto and I go to UC Berkeley now. I spend a lot of time in SF. A lot of what you said relates to my childhood. But a lot of what happened was the result of my choices. I love technology and I love the culture here. One thing that helped me before…

It worked out for you because you fit the mold (perfectly, if I might add). Most other kids don't fit that mold. And for those kids it can be a living hell, look at the Gunn suicides. Edit: I should have mentioned I'm referring to Cupertino/Mountain View/Sunnyvale area. I don't really have anything to say about SF and Santa Cruz, they sound like nice places to live.

> ...for those kids it can be a living hell...

I think you need to check your privilege here. You grew up in a household with successful parents that wanted their children to succeed. If you didn't get into Berkeley, you'd have your parents be disappointed in you. The main economic driver in your area wasn't something you were interested in, so you'd likely have to move when you grew up.

I would go so far as to say that most people in the US (not even the rest of the world) have childhoods that better resemble a living hell. I suppose most tragedy is relative, and I'm not trying to delve into Candide-style one-upping. I'm just saying that maybe it's not Silicon Valley that sucks, maybe it's just growing up.

Re: How the Internet Ruined San Francisco (1999)

#39

Post by pikachu_is_cool »

tansey wrote: post #38
pikachu_is_cool wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It worked out for you because you fit the mold (perfectly, if I might add). Most other kids don't fit that mold. And for those kids it can be a living hell, look at the Gunn suicides. Edit: I should have mentioned I'm referring to Cupertino/Mountain View/Sunnyvale area. I don't really have anything to say about SF and Santa Cruz, they sound like nice places to live.

> ...for those kids it can be a living hell... I think you need to check your privilege here. You grew up in a household with successful parents that wanted their children to succeed. If you didn't get into Berkeley, you'd have your parents be disappointed in you. The main economic driver in your area wasn't something you were interested in, so you'd likely have to move when you grew up. I would go so far as to say t…

You don't understand the most vicious verbal/physical abuse that can be thrown at you, to literally make you feel like you are the worst scum on the earth because you got a B in AP Calculus. And subsequently the sneering and pompous attitudes your peers give you. I know this sounds like some sort of exception, but it happens all the time. I literally remember being in the car with one of my friends and his dad, my friend said he got into UC Davis and is planning on going there. The dad said UC Davis is for failures.

I'm not saying that the Silicon Valley is the worst place in the world. For some people it may be a great place to grow up. But there seems to be a disproportionate amount of people who think that the Valley is some sort of godsend place to raise kids, when it isn't at all.

It is a very real problem that is underlooked BY A LARGE MARGIN, which is why I felt the need to bring it up and possibly save some people. Life is not be about being successful and rich. And you are not a failure if you get bad grades.

Re: How the Internet Ruined San Francisco (1999)

#40

Post by eclipxe »

pikachu_is_cool wrote: post #39
tansey wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...for those kids it can be a living hell... I think you need to check your privilege here. You grew up in a household with successful parents that wanted their children to succeed. If you didn't get into Berkeley, you'd have your parents be disappointed in you. The main economic driver in your area wasn't something you were interested in, so you'd likely have to move when you grew up. I would go so far as to say t…

You don't understand the most vicious verbal/physical abuse that can be thrown at you, to literally make you feel like you are the worst scum on the earth because you got a B in AP Calculus. And subsequently the sneering and pompous attitudes your peers give you. I know this sounds like some sort of exception, but it happens all the time. I literally remember being in the car with one of my friends and his dad, my fr…

Let me guess - was this dad Asian by any chance?
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