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What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com

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Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#41

Post by clavalle »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #23
logicallee wrote: post #22

I wonder what would happen if you gave a stipend to kids with a high IQ, just take a test monthly and get a bit of cash no questions asked. They could eat and support their family or wahtever. start a business with it. Also would motivate them to study hard. Steve Jobs was supposedly given a few dollars in exchange for performing his schoolwork, by one of his teachers. Could that have had a positive effect on establi…

The problem with this idea is that in general, smart kids come from smart parents, and in general, smart adults earn more income (and thus are less in need of a supplemental income)

The problem with your analysis is 'in general'.

There are a lot of kids who fall into the Mariana trench size cracks of 'in general'.

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#42

Post by anigbrowl »

joelrunyon wrote: post #13
jusben1369 wrote: post #3

This is really interesting stuff. I know they touched upon it but these studies, if they really want to change things, need to do a much better job of showing an "ROI". Too often these studies seem goaled around showing that poverty has a negative impact and assume the logical next step is so we'll address that. However, many people don't have an issue with others being in poverty; particularly if they believe they'r…

I'm always surprised people yell about the U.S. not wanting to help those in poverty. I think that's pretty well refuted by noting that the U.S. is #1 in charitable giving [1]. The bigger problem seems to be people trusting government imposed redistribution schemes rather than the rejection of them altogether. [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/19/world-giving-index-...

The US is #1 in charitable giving because it's so easy to get a tax deduction for doing so. If people had to give out of their after-tax income I suspect you'd see a quite different picture.

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#43

Post by notdrunkatall »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #34

The researcher supposed that the reduced stressors in poor parents' lives allowed them to be more nurturing, resulting in reduced problems with their children. Seems like a no-brainer to do, considering this analysis: "Bearing that in mind, Randall Akee, an economist at the University of California, Los Angeles, and a collaborator of Professor Costello’s, argues that the supplements actually save money in the long ru…

Correction: this is what happens when poor Cherokee receive a stipend, but let's not pretend that the Cherokee are the ones we're worried about here. There are differences between the subcultures, and those differences almost certainly extend to how they treat money.

Furthermore, the psychological and social difference between receiving money from a source which a population would consider to be 'theirs' cannot be overstated. If you're a poor black person (or latino, or Cherokee, or whatever), and you're living in a land that's dominated by a group that's not like you, you are less likely to respect that money than if a) that money came from a source that was yours, and b) you knew that if that source believed that you were disrespecting that money, they would cut it off.

Both stipulations apply here. Giving a small band of Cherokee profits from one of their own casinos =/= giving poor blacks and latinos federal assistance. They aren't even close.

Successfully repeating this experiment in poor black and latino populations a few times would go a long ways towards convincing the skeptical that free money for the majority of the poor is actually a good idea.

Anything else, as I said in another thread, is half-measures.

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#44

Post by notdrunkatall »

paperwork wrote: post #7
frogpelt wrote: post #4

Why do we even need to ask what happens when the poor receive a stipend? Go look in the inner cities. Go to the rural communities and find a trailer park. It's happening now. What has the result been?

Not clear what you mean by "It's happening now." What's happening?

Dependence.

Turns out that when you incentivize something, you get more of it. Who knew?

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#45

Post by danudey »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #10
paperwork wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not clear what you mean by "It's happening now." What's happening?

Welfare, food stamps, Social Security disability

Those three programs are, in most cases, barely enough to live on, especially not to live comfortably. Even if you make good choices, being on welfare and food stamps still provides you almost no opportunities other than getting as many minimum-wage jobs as you can.

You're talking about programs designed essentially to keep people alive and nothing more; to prolong life for its own sake. Minimum income is a way of ensuring that people can remove the stress and worry of being constantly broke and hungry so that they can focus on bettering their lives - going to school, choosing a good job, being able to afford a car, feeding their kids proper meals, and so on.

There is no comparison between the minimum subsistence that welfare provides and the programs that are being discussed here.

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#46

Post by quinnchr »

joelrunyon wrote: post #13
jusben1369 wrote: post #3

This is really interesting stuff. I know they touched upon it but these studies, if they really want to change things, need to do a much better job of showing an "ROI". Too often these studies seem goaled around showing that poverty has a negative impact and assume the logical next step is so we'll address that. However, many people don't have an issue with others being in poverty; particularly if they believe they'r…

I'm always surprised people yell about the U.S. not wanting to help those in poverty. I think that's pretty well refuted by noting that the U.S. is #1 in charitable giving [1]. The bigger problem seems to be people trusting government imposed redistribution schemes rather than the rejection of them altogether. [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/19/world-giving-index-...

Except that the plurality of U.S. charity goes to religious charities.

Charitable giving for health, education, and human services accounts for only 33% of all charitable giving in the U.S. How much of that goes to programs designed to address poverty is debatable.

Source: http://www.alysterling.com/documents/GUSA2012ExecutiveSummar...

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#47

Post by quinnchr »

nickff wrote: post #21
chc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Most staunch opponents of wealth redistribution oppose it on principle, not practical terms. You can tell them in very concrete terms that their tax dollars will benefit them more than it would hurt them and their reply will be, "Well, then you should let me distribute my money that way instead of taking it and doing it yourself."

> " Most staunch opponents of wealth redistribution oppose it on principle, not practical terms." Please provide a citation for this claim, I have not seen any evidence either way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_as_theft

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#48

Post by jfarmer »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #10
paperwork wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not clear what you mean by "It's happening now." What's happening?

Welfare, food stamps, Social Security disability

How many people do you know personally who rely on those things to survive? I don't mean people you've met, but people you've grown up with, friends, family, schoolmate, etc. — that sort of thing.

For example, can you name three people you know who have applied for social security disability? How likely is it they'll qualify for it? How long does the process typically take? Who do they have to convince and how?

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#49

Post by mchusma »

notdrunkatall wrote: post #43
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #34

The researcher supposed that the reduced stressors in poor parents' lives allowed them to be more nurturing, resulting in reduced problems with their children. Seems like a no-brainer to do, considering this analysis: "Bearing that in mind, Randall Akee, an economist at the University of California, Los Angeles, and a collaborator of Professor Costello’s, argues that the supplements actually save money in the long ru…

Correction: this is what happens when poor Cherokee receive a stipend, but let's not pretend that the Cherokee are the ones we're worried about here. There are differences between the subcultures, and those differences almost certainly extend to how they treat money. Furthermore, the psychological and social difference between receiving money from a source which a population would consider to be 'theirs' cannot be ov…

Here is a study that shows giving poor rural Indians a stipend. Positive results: http://mondediplo.com/2013/05/04income

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#50

Post by [deleted] »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #23
logicallee wrote: post #22

I wonder what would happen if you gave a stipend to kids with a high IQ, just take a test monthly and get a bit of cash no questions asked. They could eat and support their family or wahtever. start a business with it. Also would motivate them to study hard. Steve Jobs was supposedly given a few dollars in exchange for performing his schoolwork, by one of his teachers. Could that have had a positive effect on establi…

The problem with this idea is that in general, smart kids come from smart parents, and in general, smart adults earn more income (and thus are less in need of a supplemental income)

[deleted]
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