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What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com

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Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#31

Post by jusben1369 »

_delirium wrote: post #9
jusben1369 wrote: post #3

This is really interesting stuff. I know they touched upon it but these studies, if they really want to change things, need to do a much better job of showing an "ROI". Too often these studies seem goaled around showing that poverty has a negative impact and assume the logical next step is so we'll address that. However, many people don't have an issue with others being in poverty; particularly if they believe they'r…

I'm not sure that is really the best group to target though. The people who are simply against any redistribution, full stop, even if it works, are a minority in most countries and probably not necessary to a political coalition to do something about poverty. A pretty large group, however, are people who think that poverty-fighting schemes would be good in principle, but they are skeptical whether such schemes work i…

Yes it's that second group I'm thinking of here. Show them that over an x amount of time period these programs resulted in Y and you might make more advances.

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#32

Post by erikpukinskis »

frogpelt wrote: post #4

Why do we even need to ask what happens when the poor receive a stipend? Go look in the inner cities. Go to the rural communities and find a trailer park. It's happening now. What has the result been?

You seem to have an overinflated estimate of how many people are able to qualify for cash stipends from the U.S government.

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#33

Post by jusben1369 »

frogpelt wrote: post #4

Why do we even need to ask what happens when the poor receive a stipend? Go look in the inner cities. Go to the rural communities and find a trailer park. It's happening now. What has the result been?

Oh my. You do realize that "giving a stipend" is not a Yes or No thing right? It's the size and type? "I have no idea why the man died under my care. I fed him 100 grains of rice every single day for the last year"

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#34

Post by JoeAltmaier »

The researcher supposed that the reduced stressors in poor parents' lives allowed them to be more nurturing, resulting in reduced problems with their children. Seems like a no-brainer to do, considering this analysis:

"Bearing that in mind, Randall Akee, an economist at the University of California, Los Angeles, and a collaborator of Professor Costello’s, argues that the supplements actually save money in the long run. He calculates that 5 to 10 years after age 19, the savings incurred by the Cherokee income supplements surpass the initial costs — the payments to parents while the children were minors. That’s a conservative estimate, he says, based on reduced criminality, a reduced need for psychiatric care and savings gained from not repeating grades."

That means, its not only a good idea, its free.

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#35

Post by Qworg »

epmatsw wrote: post #26
ubernostrum wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, bootstrappy and savvy entrepreneurs disrupting the established system to their advantage? Because when a business skirts or even outright commits fraud against/tramples on regulations, HN tends to cheer about how the regulations had it coming. And what you are asserting happens is no different.

Generally when HN cheers someone skirting regulations, it's because the person/company is doing so to produce something of value rather than to avoid having to work.

Actually, if you read more articles about the doctors putting people on disability, it is far more nuanced.

When there are no jobs in the area, you don't have an education, and you don't have enough money to move, what option do you have? There are places in Alabama where 3/4 if the population is on disability; this is not because they are disabled, but because they have no other choice.

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#36

Post by 1stop »

vinceguidry wrote: post #14

The problem with this, I think, is that people will quickly forget about the bad conditions that created the need for the stipend and only see the people using it for drugs. Politically, this works out to 'unfeasible'. After all, isn't this almost exactly what food stamps are? Technically not a stipend, but they're pretty readily converted to cash on the secondary market.

Australia has the equivalent of a "stipend" for poor, unemployed, students, single parents, etc. Plus free healthcare for everyone.

It is a hugely successful program with a very low percentage of exploitation (i.e using the money for drugs, or contributing to unemployment rate). It has been constantly tweaked for the last 20 years.

You don't need to look at obscure tribal examples within America, you can just look at Australia (a very similar society to the U.S) to see this is a good policy with extremely positive outcomes for society.*

* I'll caveat this with, if you can afford it. Australia is in a super good position with regards to it's GDP/Capita and has been for the last 20-30 years, so it's difficult to say whether this is sustainable in the (even) longer term, or in countries without the same advantages.

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#37

Post by dllthomas »

1stop wrote: post #36
vinceguidry wrote: post #14

The problem with this, I think, is that people will quickly forget about the bad conditions that created the need for the stipend and only see the people using it for drugs. Politically, this works out to 'unfeasible'. After all, isn't this almost exactly what food stamps are? Technically not a stipend, but they're pretty readily converted to cash on the secondary market.

Australia has the equivalent of a "stipend" for poor, unemployed, students, single parents, etc. Plus free healthcare for everyone. It is a hugely successful program with a very low percentage of exploitation (i.e using the money for drugs, or contributing to unemployment rate). It has been constantly tweaked for the last 20 years. You don't need to look at obscure tribal examples within America, you can just look at…

"You don't need to look at obscure tribal examples within America, you can just look at Australia"

You need to look at all the data you can reasonably get. There are a lot of similarities between the US and Australia, but there are certainly differences. The more unrelated tests of the idea we get, the more confident we can be that our conclusions generalize.

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#38

Post by loceng »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #34

The researcher supposed that the reduced stressors in poor parents' lives allowed them to be more nurturing, resulting in reduced problems with their children. Seems like a no-brainer to do, considering this analysis: "Bearing that in mind, Randall Akee, an economist at the University of California, Los Angeles, and a collaborator of Professor Costello’s, argues that the supplements actually save money in the long ru…

Actually if you look at it that way, you're being "paid" to do it - and then you can use that new money for other things that are beneficial for society.

Re: What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

#39

Post by icelancer »

protomyth wrote: post #2

I should point out that not all state compacts with tribes that enable casinos allow for direct payments to tribal members. This is generally done to "allow the money to go into social programs", but it generally increases corruption to some amazing levels.

Correct. In WA state they force the tribes to spend it "within the community," which ends up as huge hotels and other ridiculous expenses that don't help the poor members of the tribe.
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