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Renting vs. buying a home

khanacademy.org

61–70 of 155 posts

Re: Renting vs. buying a home

#61
The numbers here are weird at least in my area, so it's hard to compare. But in general, in most places, over a 30 year comparison, buying is better than renting unless you get very lucky with your alternative investment decisions.

A couple things to add, house payments stay exactly the same over a very long time. They don't increase at all. The absolute dollar amount is fixed. So while rent in an area might triple over 30 years due to inflation and local housing market fluctuations, mortgage payments don't. It's a time-value of money idea. It's cheaper to buy now than later.

Most people buy or rent homes where the monthly payment is at around 1/3 of their take-home income. As a home owner, that percentage decreases as your pay increases (inflation, pay raises, promotions, etc.).

What makes the decision difficult is the cost of servicing a loan vs. just paying for rent. [1]

The problem is that, even with a low interest rate, you pay a lot of extra money towards interest. A $500,000 home with a 3% 30 year loan costs something like $750,000 in the end. You can effectively lower your rate by artificially paying down your principle. If you view the monthly payment as a minimum monthly payment, just pay extra and pay down the principle faster. One simple way to do it, as your income grows, just keep paying 33% of your take home pay towards your mortgage. If you get a big bonus, pay that as well. Most mortgages don't have a limit to how much you can pay in a month. Doing this will reduce the effective interest rate, lower the minimum required payment, and shorten the length of the loan. Even better, during months where you need lots of fluid cash, just pay the then minimum payment and different you were paying is now usable. It's like giving yourself a pay raise if you need one.

Also, when interest rates drop, you can refinance and otherwise change the terms of your loan to be more favorable. You can turn equity into large sums of cash almost on demand if you need to. You can't do any of that as a renter.

After a few years, if you run the numbers, you'll probably find that you can comfortably service a shorter-term loan, say a 15-year loan. Which also have lower interest rates than 30 year.

As a quick example, my "minimum" mortgage payment + amortized property tax is about $1500 less per month than the current market rental rate for a similar sized home.

In the end, once you finally own your house, all you are responsible for is upkeep and property taxes, which will be a tiny fraction of the then market rate for renting a similar sized property. You'll likely have more income coming in by then then you'll really know what to do with. Whereas if you had rented a similar sized property the entire time, you'll still be renting and have nothing to show for it and you'll be subject to the whims of your landlord.

I know a number of families who started out renting the house they eventually bought, but if they had just bought a house to start with would be close to owning the property instead of 10 years behind. Renting those properties bought them very little.

1 - Here's a fun experiment, let's suppose I buy a home at $500,000 with a 3.25% interest rate over 30 years. My monthly payment is $2176.03. Supposing I decided to stick with that, I'll pay $783,370 for the house.

Now let's say I rent the same property and I get lucky and it's an even $2,000/mo or $24,000/year. But let's say rent increases with the current rate of inflation (1.5%) for 30 years. Over that time you'll pay $900,928.40 for the same place. And the owner of the property will now own the place you live in and have made $117k off of you. Inflation rarely stays at 1.5% though, so let's say it's a more normal rate of 3%. Well now you've paid 1,141,809.977 for somebody else's to own their property. In other words, they'll have made $358k off of you and gotten a house of out it.

In fact, the property owner is probably just taking the increase in payment and paying down the principle even faster like I propose above.

2 - Here is an awesome tool that sort of shows my point http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/business/buy-rent-calcula... In my notional example, buying is better at around 6 years.

3 - and another one somebody else mentioned http://www.trulia.com/rent_vs_buy/ in my notional example, buying is almost 1/3rd cheaper than renting over 30 years.

Re: Renting vs. buying a home

#62

I'm amazed to see how many scientists are in here. Lot of math, lot of graphs, lot of speculation but nobody even mentioned that we are, before technicians, people. We have desires, we have daily routines, we have habits and we have a psychological environment and background. Renting will effectively (as the video outlined) leave a surplus of money in your pockets. Which you will use to buy the latest gadgets, to pay…

> Renting will effectively (as the video outlined) leave a surplus of money in your pockets. Unless your rental is rent-controlled, this is only true in the very short term. Most rents go up over time. The payments on a fixed-rate mortgage do not go up. So the monthly real cost of the mortgage goes down over time. (This is even before taking equity into account.) Renting for a long time is like having a mortgage that…

This is another aspect that should be considered and that is a huge plus in favor of buying. Because of inflation the cost of the mortgage will go down and after 30yrs it will be a lot cheaper. As a practical example, my family purchased a house 20yrs ago. At that time we payed the equivalent of $600 which was quite expensive. Today it's just nothing while the house itself gained a lot in value.

Re: Renting vs. buying a home

#63
post #53

I just went from owning a house for 15 years (bought at 23) to renting, and I love it. Maintenance was a huge burden and having a lot of capitol tied into the housing market was an anchor for several reasons. I also have the freedom to just get up and go at any time. I am fortunate to live in a renters market, you can get some really great deals for long-terms rentals if you put in the work. A house is not an investm…

Note that one can also buy an apartment and have the apartment company do basic maintenance. (Different countries do this differently).

>A house is not an investment for the average buyer, it's an emotional purchase.

I'd say the house is an investment for the average buyer, even if the average buyer doesn't buy it as an investment.

Re: Renting vs. buying a home

#64
post #44

maybe I missed something but it seems like he ignored the house value. Even if we assume that the rent & the house price remains the same of 30y, after 30y you end up with a house that worth $1M & spent ~$15K more per year. Over 30y it's $450K in cash vs owning a house of $1M, meaning buying the house was the right decision. Where is my mistake?

> after 30y you end up with a house that worth $1M In his video, Sal Khan did an apples-to-apples comparison: He compared the net out-of-pocket costs of (i) an interest-only mortgage in which you build no equity, and (ii) renting, where you likewise get no equity. If you also want to build equity in your house, in addition to merely paying the interest, then that's an additional out-of-pocket cost (which unlike the i…

At the end of an interest-only loan term, you have the option to buy the house at the price it sold for when the loan was issued.

At the end of a rental period, if you want to buy the property you are going to pay the current price.

That delta can be significant over long periods of time, and is a benefit of purchasing over renting.

Re: Renting vs. buying a home

#65
post #45

Two issues. - I'm currently paying $2,300 for a $500k house. I think his rental rates are way off. - In a free market, rental rates are supposed to adjust to make it such that an individual is indifferent between renting and buying. If it was that much more expensive to own than to rent, the landlord would never rent the house out!

>- In a free market, rental rates are supposed to adjust to make it such that an individual is indifferent between renting and buying.

I don't quite agree with that. If you're renting out, the apartment owner must pay for the risk of you destroying the apartment. If you instead buy the apartment you don't need to pay for the risk, assuming that you don't yourself destroy it.

Re: Renting vs. buying a home

#66
Realize that Sal recorded this video in March of 2008, at the peak of the housing bubble. Many of the assumptions made in the video are certainly not going to be the same in today's market.

When you're modeling the rent vs buy scenario, the outcome is hugely dependent on regional factors (like average rent & purchase prices in your area), current economic factors (like mortgage rates), and also your estimates of future events (like long-term investment return, rental price growth, and home appreciation). Even small changes in these factors can make a huge difference in the outcome. If you're interested in going into more detail, I suggest downloading the model [1] that Sal was using for these videos and plugging in your own numbers:

[1] https://www.khanacademy.org/downloads/buyrent.xls

Re: Renting vs. buying a home

#67

I'm amazed to see how many scientists are in here. Lot of math, lot of graphs, lot of speculation but nobody even mentioned that we are, before technicians, people. We have desires, we have daily routines, we have habits and we have a psychological environment and background. Renting will effectively (as the video outlined) leave a surplus of money in your pockets. Which you will use to buy the latest gadgets, to pay…

Well, I don't know where you live but in America houses are definitely not designed to last centuries. A few may last for centuries, just due to the sheer numbers of houses built, but they're not designed that way. They're designed to be cheap to build. The typical stick built house uses a frame of cheap 2 by 4s covered by cheap plywood. They're vulnerable to rot, insects, severe weather, etc. Maybe you live in an area where concrete houses are the norm.

Stick built houses are a plague upon the land.

Re: Renting vs. buying a home

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Renting will effectively (as the video outlined) leave a surplus of money in your pockets. Unless your rental is rent-controlled, this is only true in the very short term. Most rents go up over time. The payments on a fixed-rate mortgage do not go up. So the monthly real cost of the mortgage goes down over time. (This is even before taking equity into account.) Renting for a long time is like having a mortgage that…

This is another aspect that should be considered and that is a huge plus in favor of buying. Because of inflation the cost of the mortgage will go down and after 30yrs it will be a lot cheaper. As a practical example, my family purchased a house 20yrs ago. At that time we payed the equivalent of $600 which was quite expensive. Today it's just nothing while the house itself gained a lot in value.

Inflation and taxes are easily forgotten when making financial decisions; but they are the two biggest advantages of owning vs renting, at least in the U.S.

Short-term cash flow is not a smart way to evaluate rent vs own.

Re: Renting vs. buying a home

#69

I'd LOVE to find a CD @ 4%. And I'm also glad my mortgage rate is 3.75%.

Pretty much this. The interest rates on both sides seem just thought up on the spot to prove his own point.

Second, if I were to buy a house, I'd first go to my bank to check what kinda mortgage I could get, see how much that would cost me a month, and only then find a house.

Third, can't really compare rental homes with bought homes around here (netherlands); rentals are usually apartments and the like, while bought houses are... well, real houses.

Fourth, you get more house for the same amount, or pay less in mortgage/interest when you buy a house. I choose to rent for now, because the main advantage over renting vs buying is flexibility. I can give my landlady a one month notice and I'm outta here. Not so with buying a house; you've got to sell it, and hope that you can use that money to pay off your mortgage, or whatever. You're pretty much stuck on a 25-30 year mortgage if you get one.

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