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The Death Of Expertise

thefederalist.com

131–140 of 164 posts

Re: The Death Of Expertise

#131
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do. Here's a chart that compares annual tuition fees at public schools circa 2008: http://imgur.com/EIeOUQJ US tuition was around $6000+, while most of the other Euro countries were well below $2000, with the exception of the UK at ~$4800. source: http://www.oecd.org/edu/skills-beyond-school/48631028.pdf

Note that UK fees tripled for academic year 2012-13, becoming £9,000 (almost $15,000) per year.

Do you happen to know why they did this? It seems very unfair to "tax" young people 60,000k.

I understand that the UK is also in a crisis and that costs have to be reduced. Income has to be raised but with the job market as it is and an pension system that is unfair for young people this increase seems to be very harsh and unfair.

Re: The Death Of Expertise

#132
I'll start with the articles bullet points -

1. We can all stipulate: the expert isn’t always right.

All humans are fallible, including "experts", such as Albert Einstein, who famously rejected Quantum Mechanics.

2. But an expert is far more likely to be right than you are. On a question of factual interpretation or evaluation, it shouldn’t engender insecurity or anxiety to think that an expert’s view is likely to be better-informed than yours. (Because, likely, it is.)

There are "experts" in things that have no basis in anything other than the expressions of other people which may have no or very limited evidence to support them, priests, Marxist historians, Freudian psychoanalysts etc. Is their "expertise" of any actual value to the rest of humanity? What about "experts" in subjects that we as a species do not have a good understanding of? Does the conflating of those subjects with those that we have much better understanding of, for example conflating public policy with engineering disciplines, help or hinder this discussion?

3. Experts come in many flavors. Education enables it, but practitioners in a field acquire expertise through experience; usually the combination of the two is the mark of a true expert in a field. But if you have neither education nor experience, you might want to consider exactly what it is you’re bringing to the argument.

If the "field" is nothing more than some ideology, not backed by evidence, then any "education" in it seems to be open to challenge.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

Upton Sinclair

4. In any discussion, you have a positive obligation to learn at least enough to make the conversation possible. The University of Google doesn’t count. Remember: having a strong opinion about something isn’t the same as knowing something.

Do I need to know the 12 Astrological Houses to reject astrology? Do I need to know the King James Bible to reject Christianity? Do I need to know Mein Kampf to reject Nazism? Do I need to know the Talmud to reject Zionism?

5. And yes, your political opinions have value. Of course they do: you’re a member of a democracy and what you want is as important as what any other voter wants. As a layman, however, your political analysis, has far less value, and probably isn’t — indeed, almost certainly isn’t — as good as you think it is.

So if someone wanted to bring about the destruction of humanity, that would be of equal value to someone who does not? Perhaps an Orwell quote would help here-

"Political language -- and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists -- is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."

Okay, so how about trying to find out what is actually happening? I would posit the following-

1. The Internet has allowed the dissemination of both fact and fiction, evidence and opinion.

2. Critical thinking, the use of evidence and reasoning seems to be lacking from most educational systems. A population that can be swayed with propaganda rather than evidence and logic is more pliable to the will of the political class and therefore this state of affairs seems unlikely to change.

3. The rise of "Truthiness" as a consequence of 2.

4. The speed of scientific and technological progress is now so great that expertise in these fields has become much narrower and the ability to communicate this effectively to the non-experts in a timely fashion has gone down.

5. The lack of progress in understanding of the complex social, political and economic systems we inhabit while simultaneously an increase in that complexity.

6. The increasing perception of many people that the current political, economic and social systems are overly beneficial to an increasingly small number of people and those, like the author of this piece are no more than courtiers to the beneficiaries. As this idea becomes more prevalent, the courtiers must defend themselves and so they try to convince the rest of us that they are experts who have the same precise answers that engineers could give.

7. There is no ideological solution to 6.

8. People in forums like HN who do have the ability to think critically increasingly critique articles like this and hopefully spur some critical thinking in others, this is then twisted by some, like the author into an attack on all "experts".

Re: The Death Of Expertise

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that UK fees tripled for academic year 2012-13, becoming £9,000 (almost $15,000) per year.

Do you happen to know why they did this? It seems very unfair to "tax" young people 60,000k. I understand that the UK is also in a crisis and that costs have to be reduced. Income has to be raised but with the job market as it is and an pension system that is unfair for young people this increase seems to be very harsh and unfair.

15 (or so) years ago a university education was free here in the UK. A lot of students were even given grant money to live on (depending on parental income).

Then the supposedly left-wing Labour party introduced fees and loans as a replacement, supposedly because they wanted to encourage more people to go to university but they couldn't afford to keep it free if that happened. Every few years someone decides to put the fees up. The government don't directly put the fees up, but effectively do by loosening the rules about what can be charged.

Frankly it's a disgrace. We now have hoards of people with worthless degrees (Retail Management? Really?) and massive debts for all of them.

Re: The Death Of Expertise

#134
post #52

Is this supposed to be satire? I can't really tell. On the one hand, it looks like he's legitimately trying to defend these views, but on the other, when you step back and look at them, they're so obviously faulty that I can't really interpret it as anything other than parody. Take this sentence for example: "Fundamentally, it’s a rejection of science and rationality, which are the foundations of Western civilization…

That he could write this:

> after weeks of really having to watch them[Manning and Snowden], they’re both increasingly looking too weak, too stupid, and too easily manipulated to be conscious traitors. Rather, they seem to be narcissistic and naive pawns used by Wikileaks, and thus in turn by whoever is pulling Julian Assange’s strings these days. (Hint: It begins with “R” and ends with “ussia.”)

http://tomnichols.net/blog/2013/08/02/snowden-manning-and-sc...

Does really lead me to believe he is an incompetent buffoon who does not realize just how out of touch with reality he is. What upset people like him is that thanks to google instead of rolling over and taking whatever he says as gospel people can call him out for being wrong at the stroke of a few keys.

For example, did he know that Snowden has not released a single file through wikileaks?

Re: The Death Of Expertise

#135

I think what the author misses is the large institutional structure that restricts the supply of experts and (as a result) enhances their prestige. These days, with the growing availability of technical information, existing systems of licensure, credentialing, and professionalization are breeding resentment on both sides of the lectern. The author's focus in the article is on the layman's resentment for the expert.…

> To take a trivial example, I wear contact lenses. While I agree that an optometrist knows a lot more about vision correction than I do, I resent the fact that I have to pay a lot of money to sit in a chair in a dark room and wait for The Expert to deliver his Opinion about whether I need the -4.5's or -5's. People resent taking their car in for maintenance only to be told that they need to pay $110/hour to fix a pr…

"This resentment often falls into one of two categories, either "I don't know how to do this myself" (which is the lack of expertise) or "I don't want to do this so I'll hire someone" (which often is associated with the "this work is beneath me, I can't believe these people charge this, I guess I'll have to pay" idea)."

You're missing the big one - "I'm sure this guy is bilking me, but I can't prove it." The analogy for the original author would be "This guy's full of it and motivated more by ideology than he admits". It's interesting that the other experts he references are lawyers, doctors and engineers. It might be highly unlikely that a layman would contradict a lawyer, doctor or engineer and come to the right conclusions for the right reasons. This is less the case for the softer sciences such as the author's field of social policy.

Re: The Death Of Expertise

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's possible for people to obtain negative learning, e.g. learning things that are false. I would consider anyone who studies Marxism to be in this category. For most people, it is a blend of positive knowledge, and the political prejudice of their discipline, so one should neither reject or blindly accept the views of an "expert" in the social sciences. My PhD is in economics, and I would love to be able to pu…

I've seen a Harvard PhD in economics espouse on TV the false cost-push theory of inflation. It made me wonder what is taught in Harvard econ classes. Further undermining the credibility of econ degrees is an econ professor from my college stating that he believed in the free enterprise system, and the equal distribution of all income. The contradiction didn't seem to bother him in the slightest.

I hadn't heard of cost-push inflation before, and I didn't specialize in macro-economics. Who discredited this theory? The Wikipedia article says that according to Keynsians (and most modern economists are neo-Keynsians who beleive in sticky prices), prices are sticky downwards and so a supply shock to a single good would cause inflation. This seems to be an issue that could be resolved empirically. Are you familiar with the empirical evidence?

On your second point, perhaps your professor meant that he believed in free enterprise, but wanted to use the taxation system to make post-tax income much more equal? If so, there is no contradiction.

Re: The Death Of Expertise

#138
post #128

The problem with this article is that the author's field is full of experts who have wildly different opinions. There is no way to appeal to expertise in this situation. For example, he says > The death of expertise is a rejection not only of knowledge, but of the ways in which we gain knowledge and learn about things. Fundamentally, it’s a rejection of science and rationality, which are the foundations of Western ci…

The funny thing is, you're even more guilty of caring more about pushing a particular agenda than actually informing people. Whilst the probability of getting AIDS from heterosexual intercourse with a white woman is indeed extremely low, what matters is not that the sex is heterosexual but that it's with a white woman. Lesbian intercourse with a white woman is actually safer, whereas heterosexual intercourse with a w…

You claim that only the sex of the other person involved is relevant, and not whether the intercourse is with someone of the same or opposite sex.

This is wrong, and shows precisely the lack of understanding of conditional probability that I described. I am especially shocked by your use of lesbian intercourse as an example, since everyone knows the issue is men-who-have-sex-with-men. Lesbians are completely irrelevant to this debate.

Let us compare the probability of a man getting AIDS from having sex with a random man, vs a random woman. As you say, these are probably similar. However, it might be very hard for a man to convince another random man to have sex with him! So what we really want to calculate is the probability of getting AIDS from a random, actually occurring, sexual encounter (not with a prostitute) between a man and a woman, and a man and another man. This is what the statistic is intended to mean, and how people will interpret it, even if it is not always properly qualified. In this case, the probability of the man who has sex with a man getting AIDS is much higher, because gay men have a much higher incidence of AIDS than heterosexual women.

So we could add the following useless disclaimer to my earlier claim: if you are a man, sex with a randomly chosen man (including straight men) is not especially dangerous. It's only when you condition on that man being gay that it becomes statistically more dangerous.

Of course, this disclaimer would still be wrong since the sex with the man would probably be anal, which is inherently more likely to spread AIDS.

>What's more, the qualifier that it has to be with a white woman is important. That's why I included it :)

I can't comment on why AIDS is higher for heterosexuals in Africa than the US. I don't necessarily accept your claims about it. But that is not the issue here. I am talking about the probability of getting AIDS given the current situation, not any inherent link between being gay and AIDS. The actual cause is not relevant.

The best that you could say, is that the reason for these misleading statistics is not to promote gay rights, but to scare people into taking precautions that are good for society as a whole.

Re: The Death Of Expertise

#139
He complains that people keep bugging him for evidence to Support his views without having the expertise to evaluate what evidence even means. And then he snarks that Julian assange is working for Russia without offering a shred.

http://tomnichols.net/blog/2013/08/02/snowden-manning-and-sc...

Right wing blowhard indeed.

Re: The Death Of Expertise

#140

> Second-guessing their doctors and refusing to vaccinate their kids after reading stuff written by people who know exactly zip about medicine. This claim was originally by an expert doctor. > Which is why articles and books are subjected to “peer review” and not to “everyone review,” Peer review struggles to correct inaccuracies and by failing to share the underlying data behind the assertions made, and especially i…

>> Second-guessing their doctors and refusing to vaccinate their kids after reading stuff written by people who know exactly zip about medicine.

>This claim was originally by an expert doctor.

Andrew Wakefield was no expert. He was found guilty of research fraud and is no longer allowed to practice medicine.

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