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Ask HN: How to find part-time developer work?

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Re: Ask HN: How to find part-time developer work?

#101

Post by elwell »

tdicola wrote: post #47
gkoberger wrote: post #26

I've found it's almost impossible to find good work using cold calls or responding to ads. Try to find people you know. Getting the first job is the hardest, but if you do a good job -- the referrals will start to roll in. This has been inadvertent, however I've also gotten a lot of work through various projects[1][2] I've done that have gotten big on HN. Write it off mentally as a marketing expense, and spend a few…

Any tips for actually getting a Show HN post on HN? I've posted a few things but been frustrated to see them immediately fall out of the new page with only a couple votes.

Not that I do this, but upvote your post with like 10 upvotes in the first 10 minutes. You'll have to use different proxies to mask your IP. Keep in mind that this is pathological behavior for the community though.

Re: Ask HN: How to find part-time developer work?

#102

Post by bigtunacan »

pentupho wrote: post #97
bigtunacan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

drew here has it right. While it is possible to find money on side projects in more mainstream technologies like Java or .NET; it is easier in specialized fields. Depending on where you are targeting geographically those technologies vary a lot; I personally have seen a lot of demand for iOS/Android, but even more demand for Ruby on Rails. I think that quite a few Ruby on Rails developers left the community and flock…

> Instead it took over a year and the lead developer on the project walked away making a rate of right around $10/hour. To me, this sound like: if you accept a fixed rate contract knowing it'll work out to $10/hour, you can be employed for an entire year. Yes, please.

To put it into perspective; my average hourly rate is $75/hour and I charge as high as $100/hour. I use a sliding scale that goes something like this... If the project is shitty cleanup work and the client is desperate = $100/hour. This is typically someone who outsourced the work overseas for $20/hour labor and is now surprised that X feature doesn't work or Y won't scale. I don't like cleaning up other people's messes; so in that case you pay a premium.

$75/hour is my standard rate and this is anything that lasts 2 to 5 months and is either new project/features, or a generally decent code base (most clients are happy to allow me to look at the code before we agree to rates and moving forward; some may want a non-disclosure signed at this stage though)

If the work is guaranteed for a 6 months + contract then I will bid my normal rate of $75/hour to start, but will then negotiate with the client and give them a better rate, but then there is a signed contract clause that explicitly states there is a time based discount contingency; in they event they cut it short then it they essentially owe the difference between the normal rate and the discounted rate.

Putting that into perspective; if a fixed rate contract comes out to $10/hour then I'm making in a day what I would typically make for 1 hours worth of work.

I decided to begin contracting in 2011; the work was sporadic at first, but for the last year and 1/2 it has been growing steadily. Last year I left hours on the table (e.g. existing clients wanted more of my time than I could fulfill; and this was with bringing aboard 2 sub-contractors). I spent 3 years of hard work networking and selling myself, but the last 3 contracts I had were acquired by people in that networking calling me and asking if I was available. From 2012 to 2013 I saw a 3000% increase in revenues. I expect to grow revenues again this year contingent on finding good subcontractors, but not nearly as much so as from 2012 to 2013. I would anticipate somewhere between a 300% to 400% growth rate is more realistic this year.

Re: Ask HN: How to find part-time developer work?

#103

Post by SiVal »

pentupho wrote: post #97
bigtunacan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

drew here has it right. While it is possible to find money on side projects in more mainstream technologies like Java or .NET; it is easier in specialized fields. Depending on where you are targeting geographically those technologies vary a lot; I personally have seen a lot of demand for iOS/Android, but even more demand for Ruby on Rails. I think that quite a few Ruby on Rails developers left the community and flock…

> Instead it took over a year and the lead developer on the project walked away making a rate of right around $10/hour. To me, this sound like: if you accept a fixed rate contract knowing it'll work out to $10/hour, you can be employed for an entire year. Yes, please.

If you have $150/day of living expenses, no thanks.

Re: Ask HN: How to find part-time developer work?

#104

Post by bigtunacan »

trcollinson wrote: post #77
piyush_soni wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just wondering, could one have a contract like this (I haven't done freelancer work yet, but might look in future): "Up to 3 months of development time, I will take a fixed rate. If the development goes beyond that, I will charge hourly."?

I haven't done a contract quite like what you describe, but as has been pointed out, if both parties agree, anything in possible. I have found more success in a "retainer" model of consulting. We agree on a certain number of hours needed up front, say three months. If they pay a retainer up front, they get a 5%, 10%, or 15% discount (dependent on negotiations). They then burn time against these "retainer hours". At t…

I haven't used a retainer model in the past, but I have offered term of contract discounts. Some people tend to think that a contractor that bills hourly is just going to try and waste time to make more money. I have only seen this with one contractor that I came in contact with (I'm sure there are others), but most contractors will not do this.

People talk about people; within your network you quickly learn who is reliable, who is honest, who isn't, etc...

Also when I bid work for a client; while I bid hourly I am open about the reasons. I tell them point blank how many hours I believe their requirements will take to implement in a worst case scenario given they do not change the requirements. I then tell them that likely it will take less hours than that, but they need to know how much the total cost could potentially be. If the customer is still insistent on a fixed rate contract I explain that it can be difficult to prevent scope creep for customers when there is no dollar amount tied to it; and that I want everyone to be happy. I explain that if they really want a fixed bid I can make an exception, but that the fixed rate pricing will be double to triple what we have agreed upon as the max cost associated with the project. I explain this is to cover the scope creep that will inevitably be introduced and to protect myself from the loss risks associated with such a decision. Most clients then agree to the hourly rate; the rest keep looking for someone else.

Re: Ask HN: How to find part-time developer work?

#105

Post by pentupho »

bigtunacan wrote: post #102
pentupho wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead it took over a year and the lead developer on the project walked away making a rate of right around $10/hour. To me, this sound like: if you accept a fixed rate contract knowing it'll work out to $10/hour, you can be employed for an entire year. Yes, please.

To put it into perspective; my average hourly rate is $75/hour and I charge as high as $100/hour. I use a sliding scale that goes something like this... If the project is shitty cleanup work and the client is desperate = $100/hour. This is typically someone who outsourced the work overseas for $20/hour labor and is now surprised that X feature doesn't work or Y won't scale. I don't like cleaning up other people's mes…

I've been doing odesk/elance gigs for a few years, and though I can find work at $25/hour, the competition is stiff, it's a pain trying to get paid for all hours billed, and the clients aren't those you can easily list on a resume (good portion of the jobs are well-paid corporate sysadmins/programmers outsourcing their jobs, or shady fly-by-night spammer/advertiser types). All meaning, if companies really think $75/hour is normal in some areas, but more established programmers are unwilling to do fixed-price contract, then those contracts are low hanging fruit for the likes of me.

Re: Ask HN: How to find part-time developer work?

#106

Post by pentupho »

SiVal wrote: post #103
pentupho wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead it took over a year and the lead developer on the project walked away making a rate of right around $10/hour. To me, this sound like: if you accept a fixed rate contract knowing it'll work out to $10/hour, you can be employed for an entire year. Yes, please.

If you have $150/day of living expenses, no thanks.

$150/day living expenses? $4500/month? Where are you?

Re: Ask HN: How to find part-time developer work?

#107

Post by josephjrobison »

sanderjd wrote: post #76
bigtunacan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

drew here has it right. While it is possible to find money on side projects in more mainstream technologies like Java or .NET; it is easier in specialized fields. Depending on where you are targeting geographically those technologies vary a lot; I personally have seen a lot of demand for iOS/Android, but even more demand for Ruby on Rails. I think that quite a few Ruby on Rails developers left the community and flock…

I keep expecting to see a win-win industry where introverts with skills revenue share with extroverts who can sell their skills. Specialization is a good thing, it seems inefficient for people who don't enjoy networking to need to do it in order to make money.

But isn't that how most companies no matter how big or small operate? You have the developers creating and the sales team selling?

Re: Ask HN: How to find part-time developer work?

#108

Post by gkoberger »

elwell wrote: post #101
tdicola wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any tips for actually getting a Show HN post on HN? I've posted a few things but been frustrated to see them immediately fall out of the new page with only a couple votes.

Not that I do this, but upvote your post with like 10 upvotes in the first 10 minutes. You'll have to use different proxies to mask your IP. Keep in mind that this is pathological behavior for the community though.

This is shitty advice. It gets you to the front page, sure -- but something that isn't interesting still won't be interesting no matter how many votes.

There's a secret to getting your Show HN to the front page: make something genuinely interesting. Do it, and it's dead simple to get on the front page.

Re: Ask HN: How to find part-time developer work?

#109

Post by SiVal »

acheron wrote: post #37
wasd wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your situation is exactly what I'm looking for. Being hired by a company but only working part time. Consulting is difficult (for me) because it is a huge time investment.

To fill my experience out a bit more, it wasn't something I was planning to do when I got hired. From a personal standpoint, I had a kid, and my wife got a higher-paying job so my salary became less important. From an office standpoint, there were a couple people already doing a similar schedule (I do three 10-hour days T-W-Th), so I wasn't going completely out on a limb. It really did fall into place pretty easily.…

I work for a very large company which HN would probably scoff at, plus I work with very uncool things like Java and Oracle.

Don't imagine that HN is some monolithic group of fratboys obsessed with the latest cool whatever. Some of us are dads like you, some of us work for big companies like you (I don't at the moment, but I have no objection to it), and some of us take pride in being able to use the tools we need to use to create useful stuff and don't care about hacker fads, fashion, or fame.

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