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MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

mantia.me

121–130 of 158 posts

Re: MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

#121
post #80
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why audio monitors ... don't "sound as good" to the untrained ear. I've never understood this, myself. If it was mixed on monitors, and made to sound good on monitors, then shouldn't it sound best when replayed on monitors?

I think the idea is that taste can be developed. A musician probably will like the sound best from a monitor, but someone who doesn't pay as much attention to sound has a less nuanced appreciation and taste. Cheaper speakers are often biased to exaggerate the qualities that are appealing to the majority (whose tastes are less refined), hence the scare quotes acknowledging the subjective interpretation of goodness.

I didn't actually intend to make actual speaker "goodness" into a factor in the discussion, but I see now that it seems to have done so; the scare quotes were to indicate that a non-engineer (even a musician who isn't also an engineer) would possibly prefer consumer speakers because they often smooth the sound and boost some frequencies often perceived as being "good".

As you note, consumer speakers (at most price points under the obscenely expensive mark) tend to hype certain frequencies: bass and highs in particular. Folks hear it and think, "Wow, so bright and clear! And dig that bass! You can really feel it." Studio monitors do none of those things, on purpose. The job of studio monitors is not to lure a consumer at Best Buy into thinking this set of speakers is better because it is louder and brighter in a room full of noise. Their job is to accurately reflect what is on tape.

So, engineers very rarely talk about whether monitors sound "good". The word engineers use as praise is "accurate". And, when they do use the word "good" in this context, they usually mean "accurate", where someone else probably means "hyped".

Re: MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

#122
post #97
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacBook screens have been crap for as long as I can remember, since the days when they were selling PowerBooks and iBooks, long before the first iPod. I have no idea why the "demanding" Apple audience let's them get away with that but the panels on these things have always had lower contrast and (sometimes ridiculously) lower viewing angles than comparable notebooks, e.g. the sony vaios. I've done plenty side-by-side…

I suspect that would be a gamma difference with OSX, not an artifact of the screen quality. If you look at windows computers, the lighter greys are generally a bit darker than the same colour on a mac.

Apple is changing this in Snow Leopard: The default gamma will be the same as windows.

Re: MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

#123
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>It's called a MacBook Pro and is marketed at more demanding users, i.e. professionals Which "professionals"? 8bit color is important to pretty much one professional group: graphic artists/designers (maybe two, if you include people doing video work). For the vast majority of people - "professional" or otherwise - 6bit vs. 8bit color doesn't matter. It looks good, it's fast, it runs what they want. Those are the thi…

This is absolutely not true. The difference between the screen on the 13" and the 15" MacBook Pro is enormous. The text is far sharper on the 15", and that matters hugely to developers. It matters to anyone who reads text. When you use dithering/pixel tricks to fake color depth, everything turns slightly fuzzy and washed out. Even black is affected. It really begins to affect the way things look and feel on the scree…

Oh come on. I've been using laptops for 15 years, and all of the screens have been fine for programming work. (even the monochrome ones) The 6-bit display on my MacBook is clearer and crisper than the machine I had before that, and that machine was better than the one before it. Yes, it's not a patch on my twin Dell 2408WFP's (which are 8-bit), but so what?! It's not "fuzzy and washed out" by comparison - that's a ridiculously hyperbolic statement! No, I don't do colour-accurate work on my laptop, and nor would I expect to.

I do agree with the sentiment that it is disingenuous of Apple (and almost everyone else in the industry) not to list the bit depth of their displays, though.

Re: MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

#124
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not entirely fair. The specific information he was looking for is not made available to the public by Apple. He was only able to find the information after getting the model number for the display and checking with the vendor. There was no way of knowing exactly which display was used without access to a MacBook Pro because that's not information made public by Apple, either. It's an awfully roundabout way of…

Apple advertises it as being able to display millions of colors despite the fact that it really only displays 262,144. A 6-bit display is capable of displaying more than 6 bits of color information, using a technique named temporal dithering. For an example, open this image on a 6-bit display: http://imgur.com/BeVicl.png >. If the display could only display 262k colors, the squares would look identical.

It will look identical assuming the 262k colors monitor reduces the gammut using the same method used for that image.

Re: MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

#126
Even his old MacBook Pro 17" has a 6bit display.

Moreover, different batches have different monitors.

Manufacturers keep lowering prices (remember how much the Powerbooks did cost?) so they must use cheaper technology, and most people are mostly ignorant about specs anyway.

Glossy screens are another example (they're cheaper to make and they look better at first sight).

Re: MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly no, MBP15 has also 6-bit TN display.

Can you back up this assertion? Since one person in this topic already said that the 15 inch model does have 8bit and you just say that it doesn't, how am I supposed to believe you?

Well, there are very few notebooks with other than TN displays. Thinkpads used to have IPS, but since the introduction of latest generation (T400, T500), they have TN too. For a very short list, see a poster above (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=706579), he mentions one HP, one Lenovo model with optional IPS (W in series designation means workstation) and one Sony model.

Re: MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

#129
WOW. I'm finding this hard to believe. So the MacBook Pro 13" doesn't have an 8bit display, that's a little lame, we agree. But, here's the problem. You were in an Apple store and used the laptop and didn't notice. Then you took the laptop home and somehow 'found out' it doesn't support the millions of colors you apparently need (I'm no designer so I have no appreciation for this)... So... go back to the store and do the same 'check' you did for this laptop on a 15" model -- if it passes, problem solved, if not... well, maybe you should just do your designing on your 30" cinema which you now have working after receiving a $70 discount on the adapter (granted a $70 discount - the pain involved in not having it for a week or whatever). /rant

Re: MacBook Pro, Thousands of Colors

#130
post #11

I purchased my first mac last year ( a white macbook, right before the new unibody models came out). The screen on the thing is a piece of dung. Gradients look terrible. My acer travelmate from the days of the dinosaurs even has a better screen. I enjoyed reading about this guys little quest and it's one of the reasons I prefer to keep my distance from Apple.

In that case you will need to stay away from all laptop manufacturers that use LG-Phillips panels.
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