Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism • Hacker News Board

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#181

Post by tptacek » Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 1:45 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #58

I obviously don't support teaching creationism as science or anti-feminism. At the same time, I think articles like this are a pointless move in the culture war. In the U.K. Christian-oriented religious education is not only allowed in state schools, but mandatory. Everywhere! Apparently, until recently, it was the only mandatory part of the curriculum. Yet we haven't seen British society crumble into ruin as a resul…

Well, on the other hand, the UK doesn't have a 220-year-old Bill of Rights that literally opens with a prohibition on laws pertaining to religion.

And, while it doesn't seem to have caused the UK's culture to crumble (and indeed it doesn't seem to have done much of a favor to Christianity's influence in the UK), you don't think it's a little batshit to have a national law mandating that schools teach the primacy of Christianity among all religions practiced in the UK?

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#182

Post by gadders » Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 2:03 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #181

rayiner wrote: post #58

I obviously don't support teaching creationism as science or anti-feminism. At the same time, I think articles like this are a pointless move in the culture war. In the U.K. Christian-oriented religious education is not only allowed in state schools, but mandatory. Everywhere! Apparently, until recently, it was the only mandatory part of the curriculum. Yet we haven't seen British society crumble into ruin as a resul…

Well, on the other hand, the UK doesn't have a 220-year-old Bill of Rights that literally opens with a prohibition on laws pertaining to religion. And, while it doesn't seem to have caused the UK's culture to crumble (and indeed it doesn't seem to have done much of a favor to Christianity's influence in the UK), you don't think it's a little batshit to have a national law mandating that schools teach the primacy of C…

What, in a Christian country? No.

When I was in my teens, I resented the fact that I went to religious assemblies at school and couldn't opt out. Now I'm older and look back on these assemblies, they taught moral lessons that could be applicable regardless of your opinion of the supernatural.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#183

Post by uptown » Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 3:28 PM UTC

jswinghammer wrote: post #178

subsection1h wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think a lack of an understanding of biology is the problem; the problem is a disregard for empirical evidence. Whenever the evolution vs. creationism debate comes up in the context of a presidential election, some people argue that it doesn't matter whether the POTUS understands biology. But as I wrote, a lack of an understanding of biology isn't the problem; the problem is a disregard for empirical evidence.…

So if Miley Cyrus doesn't believe in empirical evidence she's a threat to civilization? Damn. We're in trouble.

Sure. Anyone with an audience, the financial resources to promote a message has the potential to inflict harm on a societal level. I realize this example is potentially politically divisive - but take the Koch brothers, and their position on climate change.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#184

Post by gress » Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 5:20 PM UTC

poorelise wrote: post #175

gress wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to one of the top 5 private high schools in the country. Evolution was split out into a separate class, and alongside it, there was a creationism class. Parents could choose one or both classes. I can guarantee you the kids who did the creationism only track were not 'disadvantaged' compared to 99% of kids in public school who were taught evolution.

Maybe they sere not disadvantaged because general standards are low? Actually the topic is a can of worms, we could go on about the purpose of school. I suspect teaching critical thinking is not what schools really want - they want to provide the industry with willing workers. In that context creationists perhaps aren't worse off much, but that doesn't mean much.

Right - my point is that you can only talk about people being 'disadvantaged' by creationist teachings when other more important factors have been resolved.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#185

Post by thedufer » Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 5:33 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #172

thedufer wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every study I've seen contradicts this common sense argument. Can you provide some of these studies? I've never seen one that was written by someone who understood why its important to control for race/financial status/etc, which makes them fairly meaningless.

Why does that make the study meaningless? I don't think I've ever read a study that says "homeschooling only works if you're white" or "public schools are only for the poor". Are we supposed to believe that the effectiveness of education is dependent on skin color?

No, its because people who are home schooled are more likely than the average student to be in classes (white, rich) that already do well in school, yet they still compare their scores to the general population.