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Apple breaks up Palm Pre, iTunes lovefest

news.cnet.com

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Re: Apple breaks up Palm Pre, iTunes lovefest

#21

Post by jrockway »

jrockway wrote: post #8

This is why I use free software; software that works in my interests, instead of actively against it. I don't really understand why people would use software that intentionally limits their rights, but it makes me sad. Amarok is vastly better than iTunes, if you are into that kind of thing. (I personally use xmms2 and a variety of perl scripts to control it, but I can see how that's not exactly suitable for everyone.…

I see the anti-free-software brigade is out in force tonight. Helpful hint, guys, I have lots of karma and nothing to spend it on.

Re: Apple breaks up Palm Pre, iTunes lovefest

#22

Post by Elepsis »

jrockway wrote: post #21
jrockway wrote: post #8

This is why I use free software; software that works in my interests, instead of actively against it. I don't really understand why people would use software that intentionally limits their rights, but it makes me sad. Amarok is vastly better than iTunes, if you are into that kind of thing. (I personally use xmms2 and a variety of perl scripts to control it, but I can see how that's not exactly suitable for everyone.…

I see the anti-free-software brigade is out in force tonight. Helpful hint, guys, I have lots of karma and nothing to spend it on.

For what it's worth, if you'd made the identical comment about Windows Media Player you'd probably be at +10 by now.

Re: Apple breaks up Palm Pre, iTunes lovefest

#23

Post by jrockway »

Elepsis wrote: post #22
jrockway wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the anti-free-software brigade is out in force tonight. Helpful hint, guys, I have lots of karma and nothing to spend it on.

For what it's worth, if you'd made the identical comment about Windows Media Player you'd probably be at +10 by now.

Yeah. I have learned what is and isn't popular here. On the popular list is being really cynical about everything; on the "not popular" list are free software, the GPL, and being liberal.

Fortunately, I have like 7000 karma points and only lose 8 for every unpopular post, so it doesn't really matter. Although, I am still trying to figure out why karma matters at all...

Re: Apple breaks up Palm Pre, iTunes lovefest

#24

Post by jemmons »

jrockway wrote: post #21
jrockway wrote: post #8

This is why I use free software; software that works in my interests, instead of actively against it. I don't really understand why people would use software that intentionally limits their rights, but it makes me sad. Amarok is vastly better than iTunes, if you are into that kind of thing. (I personally use xmms2 and a variety of perl scripts to control it, but I can see how that's not exactly suitable for everyone.…

I see the anti-free-software brigade is out in force tonight. Helpful hint, guys, I have lots of karma and nothing to spend it on.

And a hint for you, in kind. When you post about Amarok, you don't get a bunch of people posting about how iTunes is "vastly better than" your chosen tech without anything other than dumb subjective anecdotes to back it up. Nor do people whine about how your viral licenses make them "sad".

For you to do so is not just rude, it insults our intelligence (do you honestly think anyone here doesn't know what free software is? If we're not using it, it's because we've been there and found it lacking. Deal.)

Re: Apple breaks up Palm Pre, iTunes lovefest

#25

Post by jemmons »

ars wrote: post #20

I got downmodded when I said it before: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=661202 so now can I say I told you so? It's amazing how pretty much every person in that thread refused to believe Apple would break it. This is not an accident, Apple did it deliberately - they warned about it, and then they did it. Edit: And I get downmodded for this one too, which I expected. People clearly really like Apple and refuse to…

You misunderstand. People did not refuse to believe that Apple would break support. They refused to believe you had any compelling evidence to support your claim that they would.

That you happened to be right is no vindication when the odds were 50/50 and you put forth no model for predicting the outcome.

Re: Apple breaks up Palm Pre, iTunes lovefest

#26

Post by jemmons »

GHFigs wrote: post #19
potatolicious wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it's irresponsible for Palm to promote iTunes compatibility - but someone had to be first. Without a clear, actual case of "Apple shuts down competitor by software patch" one cannot make a case against Apple as a monopolizer. Hypothetical "Apple can shut down competitor" cases do not convince mainstream lawmakers and media.

Let's be clear here: Apple doesn't prevent syncing with the iTunes library. What they prevent is third parties using iTunes to do so. It is less a case of shutting out a competitor as it is squashing a parasite. Nokia and RIM both provide software to sync with a user's iTunes library, why won't Palm?

Not even. Competitors are (as far as I know) welcome to use iTunes' xml database and files. But they are not allowed to label themselves as iPods, especially on user-facing interfaces. That's exactly what the Pre does, and it's a clear and blatant infringement on Apple's marks and trade dress.

Re: Apple breaks up Palm Pre, iTunes lovefest

#27

Post by GHFigs »

ars wrote: post #20

I got downmodded when I said it before: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=661202 so now can I say I told you so? It's amazing how pretty much every person in that thread refused to believe Apple would break it. This is not an accident, Apple did it deliberately - they warned about it, and then they did it. Edit: And I get downmodded for this one too, which I expected. People clearly really like Apple and refuse to…

Um, as the person you replied to in that thread, I thought it was pretty obvious they were going to break it. From Apple's perspective, the ability to sync a Pre is a bug, and they fixed it as they would any other.

What isn't obvious is why you seem to find it so offensive and threatening.

Re: Apple breaks up Palm Pre, iTunes lovefest

#28

Post by ars »

jemmons wrote: post #25
ars wrote: post #20

I got downmodded when I said it before: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=661202 so now can I say I told you so? It's amazing how pretty much every person in that thread refused to believe Apple would break it. This is not an accident, Apple did it deliberately - they warned about it, and then they did it. Edit: And I get downmodded for this one too, which I expected. People clearly really like Apple and refuse to…

You misunderstand. People did not refuse to believe that Apple would break support. They refused to believe you had any compelling evidence to support your claim that they would. That you happened to be right is no vindication when the odds were 50/50 and you put forth no model for predicting the outcome.

It was not 50/50 it was 100%. They clearly said they would break it.

Yes I know they used marketing speak to do it, but after a while you learn to decode it.

Re: Apple breaks up Palm Pre, iTunes lovefest

#29

Post by ars »

GHFigs wrote: post #27
ars wrote: post #20

I got downmodded when I said it before: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=661202 so now can I say I told you so? It's amazing how pretty much every person in that thread refused to believe Apple would break it. This is not an accident, Apple did it deliberately - they warned about it, and then they did it. Edit: And I get downmodded for this one too, which I expected. People clearly really like Apple and refuse to…

Um, as the person you replied to in that thread, I thought it was pretty obvious they were going to break it. From Apple's perspective, the ability to sync a Pre is a bug, and they fixed it as they would any other. What isn't obvious is why you seem to find it so offensive and threatening.

I don't find it threatening, but I do find it offensive. Apple is harming consumers (it's own customers of music players), in order to protect it's market share in a related product. It's just not ethical behavior.

Some people tried to say "they just don't support it", but that's not so, they broke it deliberately. (And I know it was deliberate because they said in advance that they would do it.)

So that's what surprised me so much - that people, (you for example), just don't care that they would do that. It's something microsoft does, and everyone hates them for it. Why don't people care when apple does it?

Re: Apple breaks up Palm Pre, iTunes lovefest

#30

Post by lacker »

jemmons wrote: post #26
GHFigs wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be clear here: Apple doesn't prevent syncing with the iTunes library. What they prevent is third parties using iTunes to do so. It is less a case of shutting out a competitor as it is squashing a parasite. Nokia and RIM both provide software to sync with a user's iTunes library, why won't Palm?

Not even. Competitors are (as far as I know) welcome to use iTunes' xml database and files. But they are not allowed to label themselves as iPods, especially on user-facing interfaces. That's exactly what the Pre does, and it's a clear and blatant infringement on Apple's marks and trade dress.

A device identifying itself as an iPod in a protocol is no more "blatant infringement on Apple's marks" than it is when every modern browser puts Mozilla/4.0 in its user agent.
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