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OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

marc.info

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Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#71

Post by vezzy-fnord »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #50

So let's deal with the elephant in the room: the OpenBSD project is run by complete and utter jerks. Not just Theo, but he has set the bar quite low when it comes to friendliness and tolerance of questions from younger/less experienced contributors. Linus' rants on the Linux kernel lists are almost cookie cutter copies of Theo's. There is "opinionated software" and then there is Theo being an intolerable, obnoxious,…

Don't associate the entire project and foundation with the actions of their figurehead.

Honestly, Theo can be an asshole, but often his temper is warranted when he's faced with idiocy, like when RMS was unapologetically trying to persuade the removal of all mentions of non-free packages in OpenBSD. (http://article.gmane.org/gmane.os.openbsd.misc/134850)

I know this is what RMS does, and actually I'm sympathetic with his views, but in that context it was bullshit. This is just one incident, who knows how much Theo has to deal with other people wasting his energy on non-issues, trivialities and misconceptions?

For what it's worth, he isn't any less of a dick than Linus. Yet Linus consistently earns hero praise and adulation, the criticism of his personality being secondary and written off as justified. So why isn't Theo's justified?

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#72

Post by sliverstorm »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #50

So let's deal with the elephant in the room: the OpenBSD project is run by complete and utter jerks. Not just Theo, but he has set the bar quite low when it comes to friendliness and tolerance of questions from younger/less experienced contributors. Linus' rants on the Linux kernel lists are almost cookie cutter copies of Theo's. There is "opinionated software" and then there is Theo being an intolerable, obnoxious,…

the shortfall on the electric bill is inexplicably $20k

Quick back-of-the-envelope: At $0.12/kWh, the shortfall is about 20kW of continuous power.

Do they have significant HVAC requirements? I don't think I see 20kW of iron in the two racks that get pictured.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#73

Post by f2f »

4ad wrote: post #3

Useful (non-slashdot) links: Initial ask for help: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=138730448307723&w=2 How much it costs: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=138972987203440&w=2 Why old hardware platforms matter: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=138973312304511&w=2 Why not kickstarter: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=138973837906139&w=2 And most importantly, the donation link: http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/…

I think they should hold a bake sale.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#74

Post by olouv »

raydev wrote: post #22

I feel like it's useful to point that OpenBSD won't say exactly why the bill is so high, and apparently they don't have open accounting. That bothers me a bit. Link to relevant reddit comment thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1vakm9/openbsd_develo...

That bothers me too, what if they are mining bitcoins with the energy/funds? That wouldn't seem too far-fetched for unaudited tech-savy people.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#75

Post by chubot »

drdaeman wrote: post #26
brasetvik wrote: post #24

You may not be using OpenBSD, but the same organization is behind OpenSSH. Imagine being without ssh, then go donate. :)

Correction: OpenSSH, not SSH at all.

What other SSH's are there? I believe if you use any Linux distro, or any BSD, you are using OpenSSH.

The only Unix systems I know of that don't use OpenSSH are embedded devices.

(note: I donated based on being OpenSSH user; I am not an OpenBSD user but I'm glad it exists)

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#76

Post by d_theorist »

sliverstorm wrote: post #61
d_theorist wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly seems rather unlikely that moving the machines to another location would reduce the expenses to $0. I can well imagine that there would be a lot of difficulty in moving an large eclectic collection of old machines into a modern data center, and that such an undertaking might be extremely expensive.

Maybe not to zero, but what about from $0.14/kWh to $0.06/kWh? (I don't actually know what they currently pay)

The answer is in the second line of your post. We don't know the details of their situation. But somebody who does know says that there are good reasons not to move. Doesn't seem that implausible that he might be right.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#77

Post by brohee »

mhurron wrote: post #59
drdaeman wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: OpenSSH, not SSH at all.

Name another free ssh implementation. On every* UNIX and UNIX-like OS ssh is OpenSSH. OpenSSH is why we don't telnet everywhere anymore. *- Honestly, I don't know of anything that ships with something that is not OpenSSH.

Dropbear, seen for example in OpenWRT.

Not that it's nearly as feature full as OpenSSH, nor as architected around security (process separation and all). But it's nice when you need a small sshd.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#78

Post by d_theorist »

sliverstorm wrote: post #56
takeda wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen a picture posted on Slashdot how they server rack looks like. There are many very old machines, I am sure that at least one reason is fear that they break during transportation. Found it: http://www.openbsd.org/images/rack2009.jpg

Why not move the machines, and if the Amiga breaks down and they can't find a replacement, end Amiga support? I mean, that's not a wonderful outcome, but what would you prefer to see given the following options? a) Shut down OpenBSD b) Shut down Amiga support in OpenBSD I mean, is it even a hard choice? Besides, if there are many developers who like developing for Amiga, surely they would be able to find a replacemen…

Or hidden option c): ask people to donate money.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#79

Post by nailer »

sdkmvx wrote: post #52
jdludlow wrote: post #23

> The OpenBSD project uses a lot of electricity for running the > development and build machines. A number of logistical reasons > prevents us from moving the machines to another location which might > offer space/power for free, so let's not allow the conversation to go > that way. I don't understand this comment. If the choice came down to moving versus shutting down entirely, why is moving an unacceptable answer?

OpenBSD supports a number of odd and unusual platforms and does builds on them. See http://www.openbsd.org/plat.html . Older hardware can both use a significant amount of electricity and require much more hand-holding than is possible. Virtualization and emulation are not acceptable substitutes because they claim that doing builds on e.g. VAX is one of the best ways to ensure that the code works on VAX as opposed to…

OpenBSD's main value is high security standards.

- Is there a significant amount of people with high security standards and an interest in SGI workstation hardware?

- What about people who have high security standards and Sharp Zaurus hardware?

If these groups aren't as important, as say, ARM and x86 users, perhaps it could be worth dropping some of these platforms?

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#80

Post by sliverstorm »

d_theorist wrote: post #76
sliverstorm wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not to zero, but what about from $0.14/kWh to $0.06/kWh? (I don't actually know what they currently pay)

The answer is in the second line of your post. We don't know the details of their situation. But somebody who does know says that there are good reasons not to move. Doesn't seem that implausible that he might be right.

I don't think any of us truly have a problem with OpenBSD being unwilling to move their machines. We have a problem with OpenBSD being unwilling to move their machines, offering practically zero explanation why, while simultaneously asking for strangely large sums of money "because they can't move their machines".

If it wasn't for those three elements coming together, we wouldn't give a damn.

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