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OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

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Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#51

Post by xradionut »

hhw wrote: post #43
xradionut wrote: post #25

They could probably kill support and power for some of the "dead silicon" platforms they support. If the CPU hasn't been manufactured in the last decade or two, why support it?

From Theo's comments on the mailing list: "On a regular basis, we find real and serious bugs which affect all platforms, but they are incidentally made visible on one of the platforms we run, following that they are fixed. It is a harsh reality which static and dynamic analysis tools have not yet resolved. " "Regarding shutting them down, there other social problems. Yes, we remove about 10 of the architectures. We'd…

Who still uses an 88K machine? I have the CPU board from a DG/UX machine, but the latest chips are from 93/94.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#52

Post by sdkmvx »

jdludlow wrote: post #23

> The OpenBSD project uses a lot of electricity for running the > development and build machines. A number of logistical reasons > prevents us from moving the machines to another location which might > offer space/power for free, so let's not allow the conversation to go > that way. I don't understand this comment. If the choice came down to moving versus shutting down entirely, why is moving an unacceptable answer?

OpenBSD supports a number of odd and unusual platforms and does builds on them. See http://www.openbsd.org/plat.html. Older hardware can both use a significant amount of electricity and require much more hand-holding than is possible. Virtualization and emulation are not acceptable substitutes because they claim that doing builds on e.g. VAX is one of the best ways to ensure that the code works on VAX as opposed to simply booting on VAX. They also regularly find bugs affecting all platforms that are exacerbated by one particular architecture (think alignment or endianness issues).

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#53

Post by gtaylor »

calpaterson wrote: post #36
jdludlow wrote: post #23

> The OpenBSD project uses a lot of electricity for running the > development and build machines. A number of logistical reasons > prevents us from moving the machines to another location which might > offer space/power for free, so let's not allow the conversation to go > that way. I don't understand this comment. If the choice came down to moving versus shutting down entirely, why is moving an unacceptable answer?

> why is moving an unacceptable answer It seems likely that they don't trust anyone else to have physical access to the machines for security reasons. Their threat model probably includes national governments.

It's possible, but without any kind of answer we are all just guessing.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#54

Post by simias »

asdasf wrote: post #41
simias wrote: post #14

As a long time FreeBSD user I wish the BSDs would find a way to "unite" in a way, try to put redundant infrastructures in common. Right now I feel like linux is slowly eating all the market share, if it continues that way the BSDs will regress back to the lines of Hurd and Plan9. Competition is always a good thing, even in the OSS world.

>Competition is a good thing, so we should consolidate and have less competition That makes very little sense.

Then re-read my comment within the context of this discussion, which is OpenBSD being on the verge of bankruptcy.

If I believed all the BSD forks had a chance to live long and prosper on their own I wouldn't be saying that, but right now it seems to me that none of them have any real long time chance to remain generic OS on par with Linux (except possibly FreeBSD but it's not even certain anymore). Linux just moves too fast these days.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#55

Post by aiiane »

brohee wrote: post #46
raydev wrote: post #22

I feel like it's useful to point that OpenBSD won't say exactly why the bill is so high, and apparently they don't have open accounting. That bothers me a bit. Link to relevant reddit comment thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1vakm9/openbsd_develo...

What kind of "why" do you expect? There is a pretty large collection of computers, network equipment, UPS and HVAC stuff. You want a machine per machine watt usage? 8 year old image of one of the racks, is only grew since... http://www.openbsd.org/images/newrack.jpg

It's a due diligence kind of thing. If you're asking people to make significant monetary contributions, it makes sense to provide a clear picture of what you're using that money on.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#56

Post by sliverstorm »

takeda wrote: post #45
jdludlow wrote: post #23

> The OpenBSD project uses a lot of electricity for running the > development and build machines. A number of logistical reasons > prevents us from moving the machines to another location which might > offer space/power for free, so let's not allow the conversation to go > that way. I don't understand this comment. If the choice came down to moving versus shutting down entirely, why is moving an unacceptable answer?

I've seen a picture posted on Slashdot how they server rack looks like. There are many very old machines, I am sure that at least one reason is fear that they break during transportation. Found it: http://www.openbsd.org/images/rack2009.jpg

Why not move the machines, and if the Amiga breaks down and they can't find a replacement, end Amiga support? I mean, that's not a wonderful outcome, but what would you prefer to see given the following options?

a) Shut down OpenBSD

b) Shut down Amiga support in OpenBSD

I mean, is it even a hard choice?

Besides, if there are many developers who like developing for Amiga, surely they would be able to find a replacement?

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#57

Post by astrodust »

gtaylor wrote: post #33
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? What's not to understand? He said they had reasons that prevent them from moving and didn't want to discuss it further. Why push it? Isn't he in a better position to decide what's unacceptable than you are?

If he's asking for money from me, I would like to know why it's not an option. The root of the issue being raised is power/space, so I'd definitely want to know why I'm forking up for something the project could potentially get for free. It's not a big deal, and I don't expect him to go into detail. He just won't get a cent from me without elaborating, and that's OK. I'm not mad, and I understand he has mis-givings.…

If you're asking for help and you have constraints, you better qualify those constraints in a way that builds confidence.

The more transparency you have in your discussion, the more supportive people will be.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#58

Post by sliverstorm »

brohee wrote: post #46
raydev wrote: post #22

I feel like it's useful to point that OpenBSD won't say exactly why the bill is so high, and apparently they don't have open accounting. That bothers me a bit. Link to relevant reddit comment thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1vakm9/openbsd_develo...

What kind of "why" do you expect? There is a pretty large collection of computers, network equipment, UPS and HVAC stuff. You want a machine per machine watt usage? 8 year old image of one of the racks, is only grew since... http://www.openbsd.org/images/newrack.jpg

They could at least say, We use X watts to power Y machines

If they don't know at least numbers like that, there are some bigger issues.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#59

Post by mhurron »

drdaeman wrote: post #26
brasetvik wrote: post #24

You may not be using OpenBSD, but the same organization is behind OpenSSH. Imagine being without ssh, then go donate. :)

Correction: OpenSSH, not SSH at all.

Name another free ssh implementation.

On every* UNIX and UNIX-like OS ssh is OpenSSH. OpenSSH is why we don't telnet everywhere anymore.

*- Honestly, I don't know of anything that ships with something that is not OpenSSH.

Re: OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to keep the lights on

#60

Post by rubiquity »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #50

So let's deal with the elephant in the room: the OpenBSD project is run by complete and utter jerks. Not just Theo, but he has set the bar quite low when it comes to friendliness and tolerance of questions from younger/less experienced contributors. Linus' rants on the Linux kernel lists are almost cookie cutter copies of Theo's. There is "opinionated software" and then there is Theo being an intolerable, obnoxious,…

We're in a post-NSA revelations world and you're happy to see a project like OpenBSD disappear just because the people behind it aren't nice?
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