Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism • Hacker News Board

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#81

Post by cobrausn » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:33 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #48

fennecfoxen wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. Among your premises, it seems you believe that a primary, desirable function of the education system is to limit the influence parents have on their children -- in essence, to protect children from their parents' parenting, including sociocultural influences like religion (and, by extension of that influence, also politics and philosophy). ... Permit me to express a measure of doubt on a variety of levels. The o…

Indeed, yes, you hit the nail. I see certain religious beliefs, including "creationism" and "vaccinophobia" as existential threats to a free and open society.

Well, first of all, 'vaccinophobia' isn't often directly related to religion. A lot of 'naturalists' reject vaccine science. Second, I find it sad that your solution to existential threats to 'free and open society' is fascism. Your logic applied to 'terrorism' results in where we are now.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#82

Post by tjr » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:34 PM UTC

ideonexus wrote: post #55

mschuster91 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing home schooling is even more sick than that kind of bullshit these Texans are doing. In public schools one at least knows what the teachers are teaching. Home-schooled kids are not protected from anything ranging from creationist crap to domestic violence (you as a teacher can spot if a pupil turns up beaten every other day). Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary school…

Common sense tells me home schooled students would do worse, but they in fact perform better on tests: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling#Research I'm still anti-homeschooling, but I have to accept that these students do better... probably benefiting from having one-on-one personalized education from the parents while public school students are mostly lectured and ignored by teachers working with 30-plus stud…

I'm still anti-homeschooling, but I have to accept that these students do better

What is your reasoning for being anti-homeschooling then?

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#83

Post by fennecfoxen » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:34 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #48

fennecfoxen wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. Among your premises, it seems you believe that a primary, desirable function of the education system is to limit the influence parents have on their children -- in essence, to protect children from their parents' parenting, including sociocultural influences like religion (and, by extension of that influence, also politics and philosophy). ... Permit me to express a measure of doubt on a variety of levels. The o…

Indeed, yes, you hit the nail. I see certain religious beliefs, including "creationism" and "vaccinophobia" as existential threats to a free and open society.

Funny thing is, I see certain political beliefs -- like contempt for religious freedom (and other freedoms centered around belief and conscience) -- as existential threats to a free and open society.

I think I have a good case that they're a far more direct threat as well, as well. I could even make the case that it's a fundamental contradiction, maybe even a lie, to pursue a "free" society by suppressing freedom. :P

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#84

Post by vezzy-fnord » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:35 PM UTC

jostmey wrote: post #54

grifpete wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which accusations and why?

The part about "feminism forced women to turn to the government as a surrogate husband" being taught in a charter school is the accusation I found hard to believe. I can actually believe that there are some people against the teaching of Evolution, but I find it hard to believe that anyone would be stupid enough in this country (USA) to teach a misguided view about women's rights in this in a public school, even if i…

Keep believing that, then. I don't even consider myself a feminist and I'm very critical of postmodern feminism, but it's true that the far-right conservatives in the USA are keen on undermining women's achievements and the history of the struggle for their rights. Largely for religious reasons.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#85

Post by seanalex » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:37 PM UTC

lukethomas wrote: post #44

mschuster91 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing home schooling is even more sick than that kind of bullshit these Texans are doing. In public schools one at least knows what the teachers are teaching. Home-schooled kids are not protected from anything ranging from creationist crap to domestic violence (you as a teacher can spot if a pupil turns up beaten every other day). Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary school…

I was homeschooled growing up. My brother graduated high school with 36 college credits (dual enrollment), I graduated with 23, and my younger sister graduated with 26. It was like we went to college for a semester before even graduating. Somehow I managed to graduated university with high honors (sister is in civil engineering on a full-boat scholarship, top of her class, brother got a full boat as well.) Lastly, my…

I was homeschooled along with my three brothers in the state of Texas. We all did dual-courses at a community college during the highschool years, and all graduated from college with various MIS/CS/EE degrees.

We were not homeschooled for religious reasons. It was purely a choice made by the family during a time when we were traveling after both parents retired. We each had the option at anytime to jump back into the public education system after we moved to Austin, but we opted to continue homeschooling instead.

Would I recommend it for everyone? No. Homeschooling should be dealt with on a case by case basis.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#86

Post by jswinghammer » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:37 PM UTC

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #50

jswinghammer wrote: post #10

Given that public schools can barely teach reading, writing, or math I don't really worry too much about what they are teaching children about much else. It also does not matter what schools anywhere teach if your children do not attend that school.

> It also does not matter what schools anywhere teach if your children do not attend that school. I'm afraid that I have to disagree. If a significant number of my neighbors' children are taught that the Earth is 6,000 years old, that blacks deserve scorn as penance for Cain's sin, and that the rapture's arrival is to be expected nigh on any moment now; that is a problem for myself, my children, and everyone in my co…

So maybe you want to live in a society where public policy has nothing to do with the age of the universe. Let's do that. That sounds good.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#87

Post by jswinghammer » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:38 PM UTC

uptown wrote: post #12

jswinghammer wrote: post #10

Given that public schools can barely teach reading, writing, or math I don't really worry too much about what they are teaching children about much else. It also does not matter what schools anywhere teach if your children do not attend that school.

"It also does not matter what schools anywhere teach if your children do not attend that school." How do you figure? These people eventually enter the workforce. Maybe they become politicians, and base their political direction on misinformation. Even if they remain in the private sector, someone that is the product of a misguided education will lack the tools necessary to impact society in an informed way, and will…

I know a lot of successful people who don't know anything about the current state of evolutionary biology. I'm guessing you do too. It's totally superfluous to most occupations.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#88

Post by eloff » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:38 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #23

tokenadult wrote: post #15

I had to digest after reading this article for a while. (I've also shared the link among my Facebook friends, so that they can help me digest this.) On the whole, I like the author's take that charter schools are a good idea, a good enough idea that while Texas limits the number of charter schools to 300 statewide, it is important to make sure that each charter school offers a sound curriculum. And I think the author…

Allowing home schooling is even more sick than that kind of bullshit these Texans are doing. In public schools one at least knows what the teachers are teaching. Home-schooled kids are not protected from anything ranging from creationist crap to domestic violence (you as a teacher can spot if a pupil turns up beaten every other day). Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary school…

I was homeschooled, I can tell you It's not all like that. The Canadian government checked up on us twice a year. We followed the Alberta curriculum (using ADLC), well known for being strong in the maths and sciences. I wrote the same provincials that the other Alberta students did (in a supervised setting at the same time as everyone else.) I found it better prepared me for self motivation and learning on my own. At university I was on the deans list and scored better than 95% of students (exactly what percentile I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it was the highest of all students in the same year of computer science.) I scored 100% in calculus and published three peer reviewed math papers in conjunction with my professor as a first year student. So you can't discriminate across the board like that, even if in general you're probably correct.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#89

Post by freehunter » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:39 PM UTC

jostmey wrote: post #46

jtbigwoo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Evolution is a theory that is almost self-evident. I wish that were the case. To give one example, housecats are so vastly different than monkeys that initial observation wouldn't necessarily point toward a single primitive mammal ancestor. The theory of evolution gets so expansive when you consider billions of years that it's easier to believe in intelligent design. In a clever twist, many creationists have start…

Sure, it is difficult to initially understand how a house-cat and a monkey once shared a common ancestor. Understanding this fact requires a great deal of knowledge about biology. But the basic underlying assumptions of Evolution are self-evident. Just assume that you have something that makes copies of itself but does so imperfectly. This means that mutations may form during the copying process. Selection will then…

But the underlying assumptions of creationism hold true as well. If I have a RepRap that's making imperfect copies of itself and evolving, who created the RepRap in the first place? It certainly didn't spawn from nothing.

Sure it's a devil's advocate argument, but that's the issue. Saying something that sounds reasonable to an uneducated person will leave that person believing it's true, because it certainly sounds plausible. If you don't also teach the scientific method and critical thinking, you're not teaching.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#90

Post by mattgoldman » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:40 PM UTC

lukethomas wrote: post #44

mschuster91 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing home schooling is even more sick than that kind of bullshit these Texans are doing. In public schools one at least knows what the teachers are teaching. Home-schooled kids are not protected from anything ranging from creationist crap to domestic violence (you as a teacher can spot if a pupil turns up beaten every other day). Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary school…

I was homeschooled growing up. My brother graduated high school with 36 college credits (dual enrollment), I graduated with 23, and my younger sister graduated with 26. It was like we went to college for a semester before even graduating. Somehow I managed to graduated university with high honors (sister is in civil engineering on a full-boat scholarship, top of her class, brother got a full boat as well.) Lastly, my…

Hey Luke, that's awesome :-) how were the social aspects? How did you guys make friends along the way? Via sports/activities?