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Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

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Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't live in Austin. Austinites are pretty good at marketing themselves as progressives surrounded by the 'rest of Texas', but the reality is, as always, a bit more complicated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston

I agree that central Texas also has its fair share of conservatives, but how does the Wikipedia article about Houston prove this? Houston is 2.5 hours from Austin. Election results alone bear out the fact that Austin is still one of the few Democratic strongholds in Texas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Texas#Current_situa...

So, I generally don't equate 'Democratic Party' with 'Progressive' anymore, but at the state level I'll admit that one is at least closer than the other.

Did you read the rest of that paragraph? The cities tend to vote Democratic in state elections whereas the rural areas overwhelmingly vote Republican, and Texas has a lot of rural space. I'll also point out that the largest city in the U.S. to elect an openly gay mayor (reelected twice) is Houston, which I found entertaining because of the two Democratic candidates, she was the more 'conservative'. Austin isn't as 'weird' as it thinks it is.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#72

How does one "teach" creationism? Answer: you don't. Simply reciting "god did it" over and over is sufficient. No, this is Christian apologetics that they are teaching. In other words it's a religion class, NOT a science class. If this school is taking public money, those funds need to be withdrawn until the curriculum is properly labeled.

As an Atheist, I am not generally opposed to a religion class, even a compulsory one. Religion is a reality, and ignoring it is as bad as ignoring any other reality. Teaching creationism is worse than a mere study of religion because it promotes rote memorization of demonstrably incorrect ideas as facts.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#73
I really think both sides get this issue very wrong.

Creationism is not valid science, obviously. But that's because it isn't science at all. It is a religious belief, which is by definition non-scientific.

Here is where the science side gets things wrong. Creationism is a NON-scientific belief, not an ANTI-scientific belief. It's not anti-intellectual or stupid or backward either. It's a choice to believe in the supernatural. Lots of people, even non-religious people, believe things on grounds other than science. Science is an excellent way of explaining the world, but it isn't the only way. People have the right to inform their beliefs with a source other than science.

Here is where the creationism side gets things wrong. Same basic principle, creationism is not a scientific belief. Christians, even those who accept evolution, believe a lot of things which are clearly not scientifically sound. Bodily resurrection from the dead is perhaps the most obvious and most fundamental. It's absurd to accept the resurrection of a deity without seeking scientific evidence and then try to make scientific evidence support creationism. Even if you convince someone that creationism is scientific, you aren't going to convince them that a deity being bodily resurrected from the dead is scientific. Given that Jesus' resurrection is the fundamental belief of Christianity, it's silly to make such a big deal of something that is comparatively non-important.

So my suggestion, teach evolution in science class without mentioning creationism at all. But require at least one class in religion/philosophy so students understand that there are other ways of understanding the world. I'm not saying to teach the beliefs of any particular religion, just to explain some of the ways other than science that people have historically and continue today to understand their world.

The overwhelming majority of people on Earth today are at least nominally religious. Schools shouldn't teach students to be religious, but they should teach them to understand religion... and not just as a cute, prehistoric way of explaining things that science now has exclusive domain over. Religious beliefs, as non-scientific beliefs, are non-falsifiable. Students need to understand this. Modern science does not falsify religious beliefs. It provides an alternative based on empirical evidence. But there is no requirement that everyone on Earth only accept things based on empirical evidence. It may seem odd to you to deliberately choose to believe something which isn't based on empirical evidence, but many people do (knowingly at that) and that is their right. Students should understand that science is not a tool for disproving religion, it is a tool for explaining the world in a different way than religion does.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary schooled" kids in terms of knowledge. Citation badly needed.

Applying common sense should be enough. You as a parent have neither the time nor the knowledge of all the various subjects that are taught in school, not to mention a proper paedagogic/teaching education.

That is not true. Parents use quality textbooks and lesson plans. They also get together to pay specialists to teach difficult subjects one or more times per week. Also, by the time a homeschooled child is of the age that their subjects can only be taught by specialists, they either know how to teach themselves or take courses from local junior colleges or correspondence courses.

There is no one proper pedagogy. Teachers use a lot of different methods, as do parents, whether they have an education background, a science background, or are just using well-reviewed curricula.

The ability to give a child a customized, one-on-one education is an advantage over the classroom model. The parents have time because one parent does not work or does not work very much; they are a full-time educator and put in a lot of work to be good at it.

Regarding your earlier remark about abuse: abuse does not really happen. The safest place for a child is in a home with intact parents, and most homeschooling families are intact.

I mean this kindly when I say you are completely ignorant of what homeschooling is like. I encourage you to acquaint yourself with actual homeschoolers. There are probably several communities in your area and you would be invited to observe some of the co-operative activities and talk to the parents.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary schooled" kids in terms of knowledge. Citation badly needed.

I've never really met a "normal" home schooled person. Either they are incredibly naive, or really odd, or behave strange when in a group. There are certain things you pick when you go to school, just by being among other people.

Maybe they don't have the pack mentality of schooled individuals. Maybe they are individual instead of demographic bins that you biased mind can't put them in...

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#76
post #16

Don't panic - I was taught all sorts of daft stuff in school - when I think back on it a staggering proportion of (say) history or geography was completely untrue. It helps in a way that some of it was so crazy it got me questioning the basis for the rest. Thats when you stop being taught stuff and start researching and learning. Not suggesting that every pupil taught creationism will respond in this way - many are p…

The people who can freely dispel from themselves the intellectual dishonesty and lies that they've been taught to accept as fundamentals, is low. You sound like you weren't heavily ingrained into the dogma to begin with, and had a tendency to autodidact, which helps kill off the rest and make your own conclusions. Yet most people don't and they take whatever they're formally taught for granted, or selectively choose…

It may have helped that I was brought up a Catholic. Perceiving the shaky foundations of Christianity and the astonishing hypocrisy of that particular version probably helped clarify a lot of things for me and gave me the freedom to revisit the prejudices that had been foisted upon me in my early youth.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't live in Austin. Austinites are pretty good at marketing themselves as progressives surrounded by the 'rest of Texas', but the reality is, as always, a bit more complicated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston

I agree that central Texas also has its fair share of conservatives, but how does the Wikipedia article about Houston prove this? Houston is 2.5 hours from Austin. Election results alone bear out the fact that Austin is still one of the few Democratic strongholds in Texas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Texas#Current_situa...

It's the Houston suburbs that are Republican, whereas the rest of our vast spread-out city) leans Democrat. Houston has one of the first openly gay mayors of a major U.S. city. From the Wikipedia article: "The cities of Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Austin, and El Paso all presently have elected mayors with Democratic ties, and have voted Democratic in recent statewide and federal elections. However, the suburbs of these cities remain heavily Republican."

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, yes, you hit the nail. I see certain religious beliefs, including "creationism" and "vaccinophobia" as existential threats to a free and open society.

..how on earth do you figure creationism is a threat to an open society?

It's a blatant falsehood.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#79

I had to digest after reading this article for a while. (I've also shared the link among my Facebook friends, so that they can help me digest this.) On the whole, I like the author's take that charter schools are a good idea, a good enough idea that while Texas limits the number of charter schools to 300 statewide, it is important to make sure that each charter school offers a sound curriculum. And I think the author…

Allowing home schooling is even more sick than that kind of bullshit these Texans are doing. In public schools one at least knows what the teachers are teaching. Home-schooled kids are not protected from anything ranging from creationist crap to domestic violence (you as a teacher can spot if a pupil turns up beaten every other day). Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary school…

> Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary schooled" kids in terms of knowledge. How should they be other, after all?

I was homeschooled all the way through high school, and while I may not be the founder of Dropbox, I scored pretty high on the SATs and do very well for myself. So, [citation needed.]

While students in a public school are vying for the attention of a teacher amongst a group of 20 other students, I had the almost exclusive attention of a teacher very invested in my success for more than a decade. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there can be distinct advantages.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#80
post #13

Evolution is a theory that is almost self-evident. I hope that the pupils in these classrooms can determine the truth for themselves.

>> Evolution is a theory that is almost self-evident. I wish that were the case. To give one example, housecats are so vastly different than monkeys that initial observation wouldn't necessarily point toward a single primitive mammal ancestor. The theory of evolution gets so expansive when you consider billions of years that it's easier to believe in intelligent design. In a clever twist, many creationists have start…

There are really two completely different concepts contained within "evolution".

First there is the concept of gradual change over time in a population of self-replicating entities subject to selective pressure and heritable variation.

Second, there is the theory that all life on Earth descended from a single common ancestor that lived billions of years ago, and the current scale of biodiversity comes entirely from the application of the first concept over the intervening time.

The first is nearly obvious. The second is definitely not.

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