Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism • Hacker News Board

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#51

Post by glomph » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:25 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #23

tokenadult wrote: post #15

I had to digest after reading this article for a while. (I've also shared the link among my Facebook friends, so that they can help me digest this.) On the whole, I like the author's take that charter schools are a good idea, a good enough idea that while Texas limits the number of charter schools to 300 statewide, it is important to make sure that each charter school offers a sound curriculum. And I think the author…

Allowing home schooling is even more sick than that kind of bullshit these Texans are doing. In public schools one at least knows what the teachers are teaching. Home-schooled kids are not protected from anything ranging from creationist crap to domestic violence (you as a teacher can spot if a pupil turns up beaten every other day). Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary school…

I find it really interesting that homeschooling has such a bad reputation in america. In the UK my impression of it has been overwhelmingly positive. People who I have met who have been home schooled have often had broader education without the limitations of a national curriculum and with significantly more freedom in what sort of things that they learn.

This is balanced by the governments right to the quality of education a child is receiving and potentially serve a school attendance order.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#52

Post by mschuster91 » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:26 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #49

mschuster91 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Applying common sense should be enough. You as a parent have neither the time nor the knowledge of all the various subjects that are taught in school, not to mention a proper paedagogic/teaching education.

Every study I've seen contradicts this common sense argument. Combined with the fact that home schooled students still must take and pass state standardized tests means the students have to be at least meeting the minimum educational requirements. I have a family member in Texas with a home schooled child. They attend group teaching sessions, sit in on other classes, and use the many reference books that are provided…

Ah, so there indeed are required standards for home schooling? I did not know that.

What are the consequences of not meeting these standards?

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#53

Post by mikeash » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:26 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #37

Karunamon wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary schooled" kids in terms of knowledge. Citation badly needed.

Applying common sense should be enough. You as a parent have neither the time nor the knowledge of all the various subjects that are taught in school, not to mention a proper paedagogic/teaching education.

NO.

This entire discussion is an awful bag of anecdotes, with this "common sense" thing right at the bottom of the pack.

Let's base our discussion on actual facts and statistics, shall we?

If homeschooling is worse, the statistics will bear this out. If the statistics don't bear it out, then it's not worse. This "don't bother to look for facts, just think about it" business is reprehensible.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#54

Post by jostmey » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:26 PM UTC

grifpete wrote: post #31

jostmey wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I must admit, the accusations in this article are outlandish. I found them hard to believe.

Which accusations and why?

The part about "feminism forced women to turn to the government as a surrogate husband" being taught in a charter school is the accusation I found hard to believe. I can actually believe that there are some people against the teaching of Evolution, but I find it hard to believe that anyone would be stupid enough in this country (USA) to teach a misguided view about women's rights in this in a public school, even if it is just a charter school.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#55

Post by ideonexus » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:27 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #23

tokenadult wrote: post #15

I had to digest after reading this article for a while. (I've also shared the link among my Facebook friends, so that they can help me digest this.) On the whole, I like the author's take that charter schools are a good idea, a good enough idea that while Texas limits the number of charter schools to 300 statewide, it is important to make sure that each charter school offers a sound curriculum. And I think the author…

Allowing home schooling is even more sick than that kind of bullshit these Texans are doing. In public schools one at least knows what the teachers are teaching. Home-schooled kids are not protected from anything ranging from creationist crap to domestic violence (you as a teacher can spot if a pupil turns up beaten every other day). Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary school…

Common sense tells me home schooled students would do worse, but they in fact perform better on tests:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling#Research

I'm still anti-homeschooling, but I have to accept that these students do better... probably benefiting from having one-on-one personalized education from the parents while public school students are mostly lectured and ignored by teachers working with 30-plus students.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#56

Post by gms7777 » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:28 PM UTC

jswinghammer wrote: post #10

Given that public schools can barely teach reading, writing, or math I don't really worry too much about what they are teaching children about much else. It also does not matter what schools anywhere teach if your children do not attend that school.

The whole principle behind public schooling is that having an educated public is beneficial for society as a whole. These are the people that eventually work and contribute to the economy, they vote, they become politicians and dictate policy, etc. As such, it matters quite a great deal what schools are teaching, even if you have never met a single person that attends those schools.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#57

Post by vehementi » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:28 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #37

Karunamon wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary schooled" kids in terms of knowledge. Citation badly needed.

Applying common sense should be enough. You as a parent have neither the time nor the knowledge of all the various subjects that are taught in school, not to mention a proper paedagogic/teaching education.

Your common sense is failing you because the reasoning isn't sound. Teachers are not super-intelligent all-knowledgeable people. Parents can have the time (stay at home dad homeschooling). Home schooling is 100% 1-on-1 whereas school schooling is at a huge disadvantage to start with 1 teacher per 30+ students. Parents home schooling responsibly have access to the same text books that teachers do. Parents can learn a little bit of how to teach. Parents are more motivated to teach well than a random teacher. Etc.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#58

Post by rayiner » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:28 PM UTC

I obviously don't support teaching creationism as science or anti-feminism. At the same time, I think articles like this are a pointless move in the culture war. In the U.K. Christian-oriented religious education is not only allowed in state schools, but mandatory. Everywhere! Apparently, until recently, it was the only mandatory part of the curriculum. Yet we haven't seen British society crumble into ruin as a result.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#59

Post by vezzy-fnord » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:28 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #23

tokenadult wrote: post #15

I had to digest after reading this article for a while. (I've also shared the link among my Facebook friends, so that they can help me digest this.) On the whole, I like the author's take that charter schools are a good idea, a good enough idea that while Texas limits the number of charter schools to 300 statewide, it is important to make sure that each charter school offers a sound curriculum. And I think the author…

Allowing home schooling is even more sick than that kind of bullshit these Texans are doing. In public schools one at least knows what the teachers are teaching. Home-schooled kids are not protected from anything ranging from creationist crap to domestic violence (you as a teacher can spot if a pupil turns up beaten every other day). Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary school…

The most damaging, repugnant and horrific lesson that school teaches you is to accept school as essential and vital for the education of a populace. You appear to have absorbed this lesson very well.

If you believe that the political biases, rote memorization, rigorous examination, strict discipline, regimentation and social control that comes with public schooling is superior to the intellectual freedom of homeschooling and alternative education, you are deluded.

In fact, a structured homeschooling curriculum outweighs public schooling: http://www.parentingscience.com/homeschooling-outcomes.html

People will be biased, but for open-minded families, it's an excellent bet.

Then you underestimate just how apt children are at learning and absorbing information if given their own pace and room to heighten their interests. It's better to be well versed in a few fields and know minutiae about others, rather than merely know minutiae about many fields.

Please read the works of John Holt, John Taylor Gatto and Ivan Illich for further information.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#60

Post by Karunamon » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:28 PM UTC

sergiotapia wrote: post #40

Karunamon wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary schooled" kids in terms of knowledge. Citation badly needed.

I've never really met a "normal" home schooled person. Either they are incredibly naive, or really odd, or behave strange when in a group. There are certain things you pick when you go to school, just by being among other people.

Social behavior is one thing, and if you're home schooled, it's something you miss out on to some extent unless your parent/teacher/tutor takes special care to expose you to that.

However, the point I take issue with is the "knowledge" thing. Considering we have standardized tests, parent commenter was talking out their ass.