Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism • Hacker News Board

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#41

Post by stephenhuey » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:22 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #23

tokenadult wrote: post #15

I had to digest after reading this article for a while. (I've also shared the link among my Facebook friends, so that they can help me digest this.) On the whole, I like the author's take that charter schools are a good idea, a good enough idea that while Texas limits the number of charter schools to 300 statewide, it is important to make sure that each charter school offers a sound curriculum. And I think the author…

Allowing home schooling is even more sick than that kind of bullshit these Texans are doing. In public schools one at least knows what the teachers are teaching. Home-schooled kids are not protected from anything ranging from creationist crap to domestic violence (you as a teacher can spot if a pupil turns up beaten every other day). Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary school…

Even though there may be cases where home-schooled kids don't fare well, I can say that I learned more during my homeschool years (4th-7th grade) than any other time, and that broadening of my interests helped me go on to a top 20 university. Some home-schooled kids may have a worse experience, but you can't write off that entire demographic so easily. The reality is there is probably even more negligence in the public school system. Go watch Waiting For Superman when you get a chance!

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#42

Post by fennecfoxen » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:22 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #23

tokenadult wrote: post #15

I had to digest after reading this article for a while. (I've also shared the link among my Facebook friends, so that they can help me digest this.) On the whole, I like the author's take that charter schools are a good idea, a good enough idea that while Texas limits the number of charter schools to 300 statewide, it is important to make sure that each charter school offers a sound curriculum. And I think the author…

Allowing home schooling is even more sick than that kind of bullshit these Texans are doing. In public schools one at least knows what the teachers are teaching. Home-schooled kids are not protected from anything ranging from creationist crap to domestic violence (you as a teacher can spot if a pupil turns up beaten every other day). Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary school…

Hmm. Among your premises, it seems you believe that a primary, desirable function of the education system is to limit the influence parents have on their children -- in essence, to protect children from their parents' parenting, including sociocultural influences like religion (and, by extension of that influence, also politics and philosophy).

... Permit me to express a measure of doubt on a variety of levels. The overall desirability, the extent to which that can work, the hubris involved, et cetera...

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#43

Post by mnw21cam » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:22 PM UTC

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #11

cobrausn wrote: post #3

So, as someone who went to a private (Catholic, even) high school in Texas that taught evolution, I'm often pretty frustrated by this. Aside from just waiting for those who set these kinds of policies in place to fade away, is there any specific voting pattern that would stop this? I don't live in areas that vote in people who set these policies, so I'm not sure I can actually even affect this.

Catholics are in general more accepting of scientific evidence than Protestants, the latter being far more concerned with dogma and traditionalism. Evolution is officially supported by the Catholic Church. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution

> Catholics are in general more accepting of scientific evidence than Protestants

In my experience, the opposite is true (in the UK, at least).

Consider the condom issue.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#44

Post by lukethomas » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:22 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #23

tokenadult wrote: post #15

I had to digest after reading this article for a while. (I've also shared the link among my Facebook friends, so that they can help me digest this.) On the whole, I like the author's take that charter schools are a good idea, a good enough idea that while Texas limits the number of charter schools to 300 statewide, it is important to make sure that each charter school offers a sound curriculum. And I think the author…

Allowing home schooling is even more sick than that kind of bullshit these Texans are doing. In public schools one at least knows what the teachers are teaching. Home-schooled kids are not protected from anything ranging from creationist crap to domestic violence (you as a teacher can spot if a pupil turns up beaten every other day). Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary school…

I was homeschooled growing up. My brother graduated high school with 36 college credits (dual enrollment), I graduated with 23, and my younger sister graduated with 26. It was like we went to college for a semester before even graduating.

Somehow I managed to graduated university with high honors (sister is in civil engineering on a full-boat scholarship, top of her class, brother got a full boat as well.)

Lastly, my other younger sister (14 years old) is going to be a sophomore next year, is currently teaching herself Python/Ruby, and takes senior-level math.

Homeschooling was the best thing that happened to me: I learned to love learning.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#45

Post by fennecfoxen » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:23 PM UTC

sergiotapia wrote: post #40

Karunamon wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary schooled" kids in terms of knowledge. Citation badly needed.

I've never really met a "normal" home schooled person. Either they are incredibly naive, or really odd, or behave strange when in a group. There are certain things you pick when you go to school, just by being among other people.

Is there a properly recognized name for "argumentum ad anecdotum?"

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#46

Post by jostmey » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:23 PM UTC

jtbigwoo wrote: post #21

jostmey wrote: post #13

Evolution is a theory that is almost self-evident. I hope that the pupils in these classrooms can determine the truth for themselves.

>> Evolution is a theory that is almost self-evident. I wish that were the case. To give one example, housecats are so vastly different than monkeys that initial observation wouldn't necessarily point toward a single primitive mammal ancestor. The theory of evolution gets so expansive when you consider billions of years that it's easier to believe in intelligent design. In a clever twist, many creationists have start…

Sure, it is difficult to initially understand how a house-cat and a monkey once shared a common ancestor. Understanding this fact requires a great deal of knowledge about biology.

But the basic underlying assumptions of Evolution are self-evident. Just assume that you have something that makes copies of itself but does so imperfectly. This means that mutations may form during the copying process. Selection will then act to favor those mutation which are beneficial, and disfavors those mutations which are fatal or detrimental. These basic ideas of how evolution works, which apply to all objects that make (imperfect) copies of themselves, is almost self-evident.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#47

Post by techpeace » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:23 PM UTC

cobrausn wrote: post #22

jonesetc wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the only way to do it is to move out of Austin and start converting.

Don't live in Austin. Austinites are pretty good at marketing themselves as progressives surrounded by the 'rest of Texas', but the reality is, as always, a bit more complicated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston

I agree that central Texas also has its fair share of conservatives, but how does the Wikipedia article about Houston prove this? Houston is 2.5 hours from Austin.

Election results alone bear out the fact that Austin is still one of the few Democratic strongholds in Texas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Texas#Current_situa...

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#48

Post by mschuster91 » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:24 PM UTC

fennecfoxen wrote: post #42

mschuster91 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing home schooling is even more sick than that kind of bullshit these Texans are doing. In public schools one at least knows what the teachers are teaching. Home-schooled kids are not protected from anything ranging from creationist crap to domestic violence (you as a teacher can spot if a pupil turns up beaten every other day). Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary school…

Hmm. Among your premises, it seems you believe that a primary, desirable function of the education system is to limit the influence parents have on their children -- in essence, to protect children from their parents' parenting, including sociocultural influences like religion (and, by extension of that influence, also politics and philosophy). ... Permit me to express a measure of doubt on a variety of levels. The o…

Indeed, yes, you hit the nail. I see certain religious beliefs, including "creationism" and "vaccinophobia" as existential threats to a free and open society.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#49

Post by freehunter » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:24 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #37

Karunamon wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary schooled" kids in terms of knowledge. Citation badly needed.

Applying common sense should be enough. You as a parent have neither the time nor the knowledge of all the various subjects that are taught in school, not to mention a proper paedagogic/teaching education.

Every study I've seen contradicts this common sense argument. Combined with the fact that home schooled students still must take and pass state standardized tests means the students have to be at least meeting the minimum educational requirements.

I have a family member in Texas with a home schooled child. They attend group teaching sessions, sit in on other classes, and use the many reference books that are provided for home school teachers. Home schooled does not mean "taught only what the parent wants to teach", nor does it mean "taught only what the parent knows". There's a legal definition surrounding home schooling.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#50

Post by fnordfnordfnord » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:24 PM UTC

jswinghammer wrote: post #10

Given that public schools can barely teach reading, writing, or math I don't really worry too much about what they are teaching children about much else. It also does not matter what schools anywhere teach if your children do not attend that school.

> It also does not matter what schools anywhere teach if your children do not attend that school.

I'm afraid that I have to disagree. If a significant number of my neighbors' children are taught that the Earth is 6,000 years old, that blacks deserve scorn as penance for Cain's sin, and that the rapture's arrival is to be expected nigh on any moment now; that is a problem for myself, my children, and everyone in my community. People who believe those things support public policy that is incompatible with the type of place that I want to live.