Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism • Hacker News Board

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#21

Post by jtbigwoo » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:11 PM UTC

jostmey wrote: post #13

Evolution is a theory that is almost self-evident. I hope that the pupils in these classrooms can determine the truth for themselves.

>> Evolution is a theory that is almost self-evident.

I wish that were the case. To give one example, housecats are so vastly different than monkeys that initial observation wouldn't necessarily point toward a single primitive mammal ancestor. The theory of evolution gets so expansive when you consider billions of years that it's easier to believe in intelligent design.

In a clever twist, many creationists have started claiming that they accept micro-evolution (e.g. the idea that bird beaks would change over generations like Darwin observed) while denying that macro-evolution happens. Thus they can account for the high-school-science-class information that most people get while still clinging to creationism as the overarching truth.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#22

Post by cobrausn » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:13 PM UTC

jonesetc wrote: post #18

cobrausn wrote: post #3

So, as someone who went to a private (Catholic, even) high school in Texas that taught evolution, I'm often pretty frustrated by this. Aside from just waiting for those who set these kinds of policies in place to fade away, is there any specific voting pattern that would stop this? I don't live in areas that vote in people who set these policies, so I'm not sure I can actually even affect this.

I think the only way to do it is to move out of Austin and start converting.

Don't live in Austin. Austinites are pretty good at marketing themselves as progressives surrounded by the 'rest of Texas', but the reality is, as always, a bit more complicated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#23

Post by mschuster91 » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:13 PM UTC

tokenadult wrote: post #15

I had to digest after reading this article for a while. (I've also shared the link among my Facebook friends, so that they can help me digest this.) On the whole, I like the author's take that charter schools are a good idea, a good enough idea that while Texas limits the number of charter schools to 300 statewide, it is important to make sure that each charter school offers a sound curriculum. And I think the author…

Allowing home schooling is even more sick than that kind of bullshit these Texans are doing.

In public schools one at least knows what the teachers are teaching. Home-schooled kids are not protected from anything ranging from creationist crap to domestic violence (you as a teacher can spot if a pupil turns up beaten every other day).

Not to mention the fact that home-schooled kids are far, far behind "ordinary schooled" kids in terms of knowledge. How should they be other, after all?

Edit: for all those who down-vote, I'm writing this from a German point of view. Here, nearly every non-state/church-schooling effort has been plagued with massive problems: inadequate knowledge of teachers, sexual harrassment, violence scandals. Name the problem, you've had it.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#24

Post by FrankenPC » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:13 PM UTC

dclowd9901 wrote: post #2

I've come to the realization not too long ago that some things -- even things that appear to be very influenceable -- you cannot change. A school, especially a charter school, teaching an agenda that parents don't oppose is one of those things. Just like wages, unemployment or gas prices, there are larger, more primordial forces directing these things. So what's the point of this article? A naive answer would be "pur…

I thought the article mentions that this charter school is taking public money. Therein lies the problem.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#25

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:14 PM UTC

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #11

cobrausn wrote: post #3

So, as someone who went to a private (Catholic, even) high school in Texas that taught evolution, I'm often pretty frustrated by this. Aside from just waiting for those who set these kinds of policies in place to fade away, is there any specific voting pattern that would stop this? I don't live in areas that vote in people who set these policies, so I'm not sure I can actually even affect this.

Catholics are in general more accepting of scientific evidence than Protestants, the latter being far more concerned with dogma and traditionalism. Evolution is officially supported by the Catholic Church. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution

[deleted]

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#26

Post by MartinCron » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:14 PM UTC

tomswartz07 wrote: post #14

herge wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a Catholic high school teach anything else other than evolution?

I went to a private school in PA, and we were taught evolution. The teacher made a passing remark that creationism is a 'competing hypothesis' and left it at that.

A hypothesis implies falsification via observation or experimentation. Creationism does not (and cannot) meet that definition. Calling creationism a "competing hypothesis" is an insult to science.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#27

Post by vezzy-fnord » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:15 PM UTC

bdfh42 wrote: post #16

Don't panic - I was taught all sorts of daft stuff in school - when I think back on it a staggering proportion of (say) history or geography was completely untrue. It helps in a way that some of it was so crazy it got me questioning the basis for the rest. Thats when you stop being taught stuff and start researching and learning. Not suggesting that every pupil taught creationism will respond in this way - many are p…

The people who can freely dispel from themselves the intellectual dishonesty and lies that they've been taught to accept as fundamentals, is low.

You sound like you weren't heavily ingrained into the dogma to begin with, and had a tendency to autodidact, which helps kill off the rest and make your own conclusions. Yet most people don't and they take whatever they're formally taught for granted, or selectively choose to believe whatever fits their ideological predispositions.

Many of these kids will be stuck with lifelong delusions. Their parents may mold them to a certain path, but their schooling will solidify it completely.

Even still, this is a very abhorrent thing to do.

"Hey kid, everything you know about history, geography, geology and natural science is a lie! Read up on the facts and realize you've been living in a matrix all this time!"

I mean, people with perseverance can totally get through it and then in retrospect have a laugh at the bullshit they were taught, but even with this in mind at best the whole thing is a major inconvenience.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#28

Post by grifpete » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:15 PM UTC

dclowd9901 wrote: post #2

I've come to the realization not too long ago that some things -- even things that appear to be very influenceable -- you cannot change. A school, especially a charter school, teaching an agenda that parents don't oppose is one of those things. Just like wages, unemployment or gas prices, there are larger, more primordial forces directing these things. So what's the point of this article? A naive answer would be "pur…

One point is to evidence the fact that public money is being spent illegally.

Furthermore, to the extent that we tolerate this nonsense we will continue to miseducate a whole generation who will have no tools with which to escape from their family of community's broken belief systems. And this means we will continue to be divided.

Incidentally, my observation is that it is inaccurate to characterize the country as one 'where each half things the other is evil.' More accurate, I believe, is 'where one half thinks the other is evil, and the other half thinks the other is lamentably poorly educated with a medieval world view.'

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#29

Post by FrankenPC » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:16 PM UTC

How does one "teach" creationism? Answer: you don't. Simply reciting "god did it" over and over is sufficient. No, this is Christian apologetics that they are teaching. In other words it's a religion class, NOT a science class. If this school is taking public money, those funds need to be withdrawn until the curriculum is properly labeled.

Re: Texas Public Schools Are Teaching Creationism

#30

Post by kordless » Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 4:16 PM UTC

dclowd9901 wrote: post #2

I've come to the realization not too long ago that some things -- even things that appear to be very influenceable -- you cannot change. A school, especially a charter school, teaching an agenda that parents don't oppose is one of those things. Just like wages, unemployment or gas prices, there are larger, more primordial forces directing these things. So what's the point of this article? A naive answer would be "pur…

Christianity brings a methodology to this part of our society. At a glance it encourages equal treatment of others, guides for parenting, finding happiness and even tips on raising children. I think the primary problem with it is that it fails to expose the underlying rationalizations and rule set for why these are good things to teach to people. At times that can cause issues, especially where intent or fears are misaligned with the goal of understanding.

Understanding we don't understand how the universe works takes a lot of brain power, so someone somewhere just has to have faith why that statement is true. Unfortunately this also opens up the possibility of someone who, for whatever reason, wants others to have faith that a supreme being created us 6,000 years ago out of thin air. By that same logic, one other individual could state we need to have faith a supreme being created all of this just this morning at 6:34AM EST, just like you see it here and stuck us all in it with our existing memories.

I was raised in a fairly religious household, but thankfully I also had time to think outside the box. If I had to label myself as practicing anything nowadays, it'd be Buddhism. It's much more applicable for me because it maps well into what I believe about the nature of the universe. That's not to say it's a completely accurate representation, but it serves me well enough.