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Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

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Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#71

Post by davidw »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #50
davidw wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but the guy takes antibiotics, and the pain goes away. Seems pretty clear-cut, no? How long should he wait in pain? I get sinus infections like that. They drag on for weeks at a time, I take some antibiotics, and bang, better in a day or two. Those weeks when I'm miserable have costs in terms of not being able to work as much, not being as much help around the house, not going out/seen friends, and generally gett…

It is that notion in modern people "pain must go away, fast!" that makes things worse. Because people think that way, many will go to hospital and get said: There is nothing we can do for you (anymore). And wait some years, than the problem will widespread. We are indeed really lucky: Only 100 years before, there was no cure for many diseases where we just throw a pill today. But we today just take it for granted and…

You should try walking a mile in someone else's shoes before telling them what they should and should not think or how they should act.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#72

Post by tptacek »

apendleton wrote: post #40
carbocation wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By what means did you self-diagnose MRSA? At a hospital, that would involve a Gram stain / culture/speciation / sensitivities and take a few days. Gram stain, because it's very fast (minutes) and can tell you, e.g., that you have Gram positive cocci in clusters (thus, likely staphylococcus species ). Culture, then, to grow the bugs and see what nutritional requirements they have and what biochemical modifications the…

A really determined person could probably do almost all of those at home if they really wanted to, with the exception of the sensitivity test and PCR. A makeshift incubator wouldn't be that hard to fashion, TSA plates are cheap, gram stain kits are relatively cheap, and you can do a catalase test with hydrogen peroxide. I guess you'd need a decent microscope, but the hypothetical person that's gram staining their own…

'carbocation is too nice to say it, but I'm not nice at all, so I will: the point is that it's hard to diagnose MRSA even if you have expertise and a full lab, and so it's nearly certain that the commenter above didn't actually "self-diagnose MRSA".

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#73

Post by Blahah »

carbocation wrote: post #45
apendleton wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A really determined person could probably do almost all of those at home if they really wanted to, with the exception of the sensitivity test and PCR. A makeshift incubator wouldn't be that hard to fashion, TSA plates are cheap, gram stain kits are relatively cheap, and you can do a catalase test with hydrogen peroxide. I guess you'd need a decent microscope, but the hypothetical person that's gram staining their own…

Totally agreed; I don't doubt that anyone on HN could do this in their own apartment with the right tools. Many HNers probably have done this in bio lab back in high school or college. I'm just doubtful of the actual claim of self-diagnosis of MRSA.

edit: misread your comment, nvm

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#74

Post by davak »

nathanvanfleet wrote: post #68
conductr wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious: Do these problems exist in other countries where even strong antibiotics are sold OTC? I would guess not as bad, the culture in the US is to medicate immediately at first sign of illness. When I get sick, I try to just let it run it's course.

Or does it exist in places where medical care is cheap or free (Canada or the UK)?

The last I checked Canada didn't have near the problem with MRSA that the US has:

"Similarly the United States has major problems with methicillin-resistant S aureus, vancomycin-resistant enterococci, multidrug-resistant M tuberculosis and penicillin-resistant pneumococci, whereas in Canada there is very little resistance to any of these organisms." (1)

That being said, it's a very multifactorial issue so it's hard to know exactly why that is. Canada's health care is more available and more regulated. Is it that people have an easier way of getting checked, is it that not-for-profit systems have less pressure to over-prescribe antibiotics, or something else?

1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3327906/

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#75

Post by davak »

conductr wrote: post #46
davak wrote: post #21

ICU doctor here. I frequently see complications of overuse of antibiotics. C diff colitis (1) is certainly the most obvious, but resistant pneumonias and urinary tract infections are becoming more common as well. Many resistant organisms set up shop in chronically ill patients who see multiple rounds of antibiotics through their lives; however, in just my short 10 year history as a physician, the increasing amount of…

Curious: Do these problems exist in other countries where even strong antibiotics are sold OTC? I would guess not as bad, the culture in the US is to medicate immediately at first sign of illness. When I get sick, I try to just let it run it's course.

Yes. Multidrug resistance in TB is frequently related to the availability of antibiotics.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#77

Post by chillingeffect »

msandford wrote: post #23
timini wrote: post #3

This "common knowledge amongst all branches of the american special forces" is going to be a breeding ground for resistant strains.

Nice try, but not a chance. You want to see where resistance comes from? Have a little look-see at this chart: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/01/a...

well, the biggest segment of the graph isn't identical to what the previous guy said, so you must be right!

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#78

Post by brianpgordon »

spindritf wrote: post #17

July 18, 2002 Has anything changed?

Nope. I bought (fish) amoxicillin for my first-aid kit a couple of weeks ago. It says USP pharmaceutical grade, and the pills look exactly like Google image search says human amoxicillin looks. I suppose since it's unregulated they could be putting sugar or arsenic or something in the pills, but I'd imagine they'd be in hot water with some pissed off fish owners if that were the case.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#79

Post by mberning »

carbocation wrote: post #31
mberning wrote: post #11

I have successfully diagnosed and treated MRSA and upper respiratory infections in myself. I NEVER suggest anybody else to self medicate. Most people do not take it seriously enough or do enough research to self medicate. All that being said, I think it is a shame that we live in a system where it is so expensive and inconvenient to see a real doctor that people resort to this kind of thing.

By what means did you self-diagnose MRSA? At a hospital, that would involve a Gram stain / culture/speciation / sensitivities and take a few days. Gram stain, because it's very fast (minutes) and can tell you, e.g., that you have Gram positive cocci in clusters (thus, likely staphylococcus species ). Culture, then, to grow the bugs and see what nutritional requirements they have and what biochemical modifications the…

There are several signs that distinguish MRSA from a normal staph infection.

1. Intense pain that extends beyond the boundaries of the visible irritation. Pain that is much more intense than a normal pimple or ingrown hair.

2. Distinct rash (as far as I understand the rash is caused by the specific toxins MRSA generates)

3. Necrosis of the skin. MRSA will produce blackened dead skin which many people mistake for a scab.

That, and I had MRSA years ago and had it diagnosed by a doctor, so I was already familiar with the condition.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#80

Post by brianpgordon »

math wrote: post #4
timini wrote: post #3

This "common knowledge amongst all branches of the american special forces" is going to be a breeding ground for resistant strains.

Yes... Also, you can get anything you like over the counter in Cambodia and presumably other less developed countries ... good luck to anyone trying to regulate that.

Cambodia? It's well-known that if you want something without having to see a doctor, you can just drive over the border to Mexico and pick it up from a pharmacy. Obviously you can't get serious narcotics but you can certainly get antibiotics, prescription-strength toothpaste, etc.
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