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Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

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Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#31

Post by carbocation »

mberning wrote: post #11

I have successfully diagnosed and treated MRSA and upper respiratory infections in myself. I NEVER suggest anybody else to self medicate. Most people do not take it seriously enough or do enough research to self medicate. All that being said, I think it is a shame that we live in a system where it is so expensive and inconvenient to see a real doctor that people resort to this kind of thing.

By what means did you self-diagnose MRSA? At a hospital, that would involve a Gram stain / culture/speciation / sensitivities and take a few days.

Gram stain, because it's very fast (minutes) and can tell you, e.g., that you have Gram positive cocci in clusters (thus, likely staphylococcus species).

Culture, then, to grow the bugs and see what nutritional requirements they have and what biochemical modifications they make. Catalase producing? Likely staph aureus.

Finally, sensitivities: resistant to oxacillin? MRSA.

One could imagine PCR-based tests, too, though at my institution such a test is not in use.

Getting back to my question, how did you successfully self-diagnose MRSA?

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#32

Post by cosmic_shame »

mberning wrote: post #11

I have successfully diagnosed and treated MRSA and upper respiratory infections in myself. I NEVER suggest anybody else to self medicate. Most people do not take it seriously enough or do enough research to self medicate. All that being said, I think it is a shame that we live in a system where it is so expensive and inconvenient to see a real doctor that people resort to this kind of thing.

Really, you successfully diagnosed yourself with MRSA as opposed to a methicillin-susceptible Staph infection? And how exactly did you do that? Non response to one antibiotic?

This is exactly the problem with people self treating. Without a proper workup, which in this case would have likely involved some sort of diagnostic microbiology, people end up over- or mistreating themselves.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#33

Post by carbocation »

[deleted] wrote: post #29

[deleted]

When actions taken based on the perceived self-interest of individuals put the public health at harm, any public health program will probably be perceived as paternalistic.

The cavalier approach to antibiotic custodianship you are describing is exactly why we have limitations on antibiotic availability in this country.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#34

Post by brazzy »

msandford wrote: post #20
ClementM wrote: post #15

The fact that so many people are looking to get drugs without a prescription makes me reflect on the accessibility to healthcare in this country....

The folks in the special forces community have access to doctors. They're in the military. There are doctors in the military too and their whole job is looking after soldiers. If you really want to get right down to it, why are guys in special forces (arguably reasonably smart, also evidenced by their figuring out this antibiotics trick) NOT going to see an army doc right away? If I was going to be a really snarky as…

Another comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7063539 ) seems to imply that special forces soldiers avoid seeing army docs because any recorded medical problem might hurt their career.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#35

Post by PythonicAlpha »

[deleted] wrote: post #29

[deleted]

I don't live in the US, so I can only tell from my country, that I think is even more what pisses you off.

I don't think, that every use of medicine should be regulated, but antibiotics I see different and I am really not amused hearing, that you can get them in fish stores ...

The problem of modern medicine today is, that more and more resistances occur. The reason is: Overuse or wrong use of antibiotics. That problem is already causing many, many deaths and extraneous diseases every year. The problem will grow.

Of course, the main reason is -- as much I know -- the use of antibiotics in meat production. But even then, when everybody would have free access to antibiotics, the problem would be worsen a lot, since most people even in western world are not ready to handle them right.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#36

Post by a3n »

msandford wrote: post #20
ClementM wrote: post #15

The fact that so many people are looking to get drugs without a prescription makes me reflect on the accessibility to healthcare in this country....

The folks in the special forces community have access to doctors. They're in the military. There are doctors in the military too and their whole job is looking after soldiers. If you really want to get right down to it, why are guys in special forces (arguably reasonably smart, also evidenced by their figuring out this antibiotics trick) NOT going to see an army doc right away? If I was going to be a really snarky as…

I think maxerickson over in another subthread hit it on the head, "Active duty special forces is likely more worried about keeping a clean medical history than expense or inconvenience." These people are by definition and filtering hyper-motivated.

More generally, what makes sense for your career sometimes negatively affects other areas, but we tend to protect our careers.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#37

Post by davidw »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #35
[deleted] wrote: post #29

[deleted]

I don't live in the US, so I can only tell from my country, that I think is even more what pisses you off. I don't think, that every use of medicine should be regulated, but antibiotics I see different and I am really not amused hearing, that you can get them in fish stores ... The problem of modern medicine today is, that more and more resistances occur. The reason is: Overuse or wrong use of antibiotics. That probl…

Ok, but the guy takes antibiotics, and the pain goes away. Seems pretty clear-cut, no? How long should he wait in pain?

I get sinus infections like that. They drag on for weeks at a time, I take some antibiotics, and bang, better in a day or two. Those weeks when I'm miserable have costs in terms of not being able to work as much, not being as much help around the house, not going out/seen friends, and generally getting less done.

Naturally, here in Italy I can pretty much see a doctor any day of the week, so of course I get them prescribed.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#38

Post by drivingmenuts »

Before I had health insurance/well-paying job, buying fishmox was the standby plan if I needed antibiotics. It occurs to me now that, even though I haven't taken many antibiotics in my life, it wouldn't matter - the bugs I would catch would be from other people and would have built up resistances to whatever I took.

Unfortunately, I told my mom about fishmox a long time ago (during same salad days) and now I sort of wish I hadn't. It's her standby plan and I'm not likely to be able to convince her otherwise.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#39

Post by CWuestefeld »

mberning wrote: post #11

I have successfully diagnosed and treated MRSA and upper respiratory infections in myself. I NEVER suggest anybody else to self medicate. Most people do not take it seriously enough or do enough research to self medicate. All that being said, I think it is a shame that we live in a system where it is so expensive and inconvenient to see a real doctor that people resort to this kind of thing.

I have self-medicated with antibiotics in the past, when circumstances warranted. It is indeed an access problem (at least for me), but not caused by the cost (I have good healthcare insurance). Rather, it's caused primarily by the delay before one can see the doctor. And all evidence suggests that the results of the USA's current healthcare initiatives will exacerbate this waiting problem, and therefore also the self-medication issue as well.

I also think it's a pretty good idea to carry emergency medication when traveling abroad. You won't know where medical care will be available, and indeed how to avail yourself of that care. Having a Z-pack and a couple of other things handy can save a lot of trouble. This has been a big boon to me more than once in the past. One one occasion the wife got a UTI, which is easily treatable with the right meds. On another occasion I helped out a fellow traveler, a doctor as it happens, by giving him an Ace bandage for a sprained ankle.

I actually have some fish meds stored in case of emergency, but have never been desperate enough to use them. The extra stuff I have on hand I acquired while traveling abroad, in countries that have looser restrictions on pharmaceuticals (this used to be Mexico, but they recently tightened up their laws).

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#40

Post by apendleton »

carbocation wrote: post #31
mberning wrote: post #11

I have successfully diagnosed and treated MRSA and upper respiratory infections in myself. I NEVER suggest anybody else to self medicate. Most people do not take it seriously enough or do enough research to self medicate. All that being said, I think it is a shame that we live in a system where it is so expensive and inconvenient to see a real doctor that people resort to this kind of thing.

By what means did you self-diagnose MRSA? At a hospital, that would involve a Gram stain / culture/speciation / sensitivities and take a few days. Gram stain, because it's very fast (minutes) and can tell you, e.g., that you have Gram positive cocci in clusters (thus, likely staphylococcus species ). Culture, then, to grow the bugs and see what nutritional requirements they have and what biochemical modifications the…

A really determined person could probably do almost all of those at home if they really wanted to, with the exception of the sensitivity test and PCR. A makeshift incubator wouldn't be that hard to fashion, TSA plates are cheap, gram stain kits are relatively cheap, and you can do a catalase test with hydrogen peroxide. I guess you'd need a decent microscope, but the hypothetical person that's gram staining their own cultures at home surely has one, right?

So the MRSA diagnosis is hard to swallow, but getting to staph aureus might be doable.

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